From NW
[NC goes back to the bundle]
NC there’s no mention of the Caleb complaint being part of the iv
MTM correct
[Caleb was the person who went to Amie Martin, just to be clear]
NC if an employee is still at work after a complaint like that there’s risk she might do it again. She should be suspended
MTM it would be but she was not at point a danger to the organisation - the office was closing down, she
was going on holiday - and it’s only an allegation - we didn’t know it was true
NC you could pick up the phone to TP and ask them for advice, but you didn’t
MTM yes, theoretically, but the decision was to do the iv and “just get on with it”
NC there was no iv of this complaint becase no one ever really believed it was true
MTM I can’t speak for anyone. “I took it as a complaint. I neither believed or disbelieved it. If it was true it’s not really the way I would like someone employed by the Film Festival to act”
NC reads the Caleb email: “I drafted an email to you in November after having an incident with Sara Morrison during the
festival, and again on the 16th of April after Sara publically spoke at an anti-transgender rally in
Belfast city centre that was circulated online. On both occasions I opted not to send the emails,
feeling powerless and quite worried about the possibility of being exiled from the Belfast Film
Festival for speaking about my experience.” - this par is particularly implausible
MTM well you’re saying they had mental health issues and they’re young
NC there’s no way that a woman who identifies as a man would be abused by a TERF is there
MTM I don’t know what a TERF is - I have no knowledge of this whole debate - the letters, the different
factions etc etc - it is not an area that I have any expertise in
NC do you understand the terms sex realist or gender critical
MTM no
NC you’re telling the tribunal that you are giving evidence about a claim against the BFF for discrimination and you haven’t taken the time to acquaint yourself with the issues
MTM yes - an employee has done something which has caused complaints to be made, so I thought an
investigation was the best way to proceed. In the context of that process I might have learned
NC you stand accused of discriminating against someone based on their belief and you don’t know what it is
MTM “you may think me utterly blind or whatever”, but my starting point was that an employee had done something and it had caused problems for the org and we had to investigate it.
NC MD went off to get Equality Commission advice and you thought that was a good idea
MTM always think it’s a good idea
NC what protected characteristic did you think was being engaged?
MTM that SM might think she had the right to express views about trans people and that’s as far as it went
- that she believed she had a protected right to express those views.
NC you’re a senior person, director of a company - experience
MTM yes
NC this has been a debate which has been going for some time
MTM yes I’ve read about it in the papers, but I’m not interested in it
NC would you not want to acquaint yourself with it more after being accused of discriminating against someone
MTM no - I didn’t care about her views one way or another - I wanted to protect the company and the best way to do it was an iv
NC so you say you wanted to do an iv but you hadn’t up til today taken an interest in it -