Sara Morrison v BFF thread 4

[MarieDeGournay]

continuation

Judge was saying all orgs find SARs time consuming, not an excuse to fudge them.

This was re the gaslight quote. MN playing up badly and not displaying quotes.

Thanks, much appreciated!

It's also particularly disingenuous of MD to frame sending Sara's password stuffed inside - by her own say-so - a bundle of hundreds of documents in a response to a formal SAR as "this is how I fixed my mistakenly sending her password to the e-mail account she needed said password for months ago".

The shopping has been delivered so I have frozen chips again.

So, today I have gone for a deconstructed chip buttie.

Following previous comments I've altered the bread to chip ratio, and thrown the chips into an unorganised pile (I so want to straighten them up). I've added a small bowl of Magi Liquid Seasoning to dip spare chips into, and 'll be drinking chocolate milkshake whilst waiting for Cloudfare to sort itself out!

Ok. Twitter came back quicker than MN.

Will post NW in batches.

From NW

MD there weren’t
NC ?
MD I’ve looked since and there weren’t - “there were lots of taxi receipts”
NC and she couldn’t put an ooo on? She couldn’t respond to any emails

SD this is not a pleaded issue - it’s not relevant
J where are you going
NC this goes to issue 1 1 K “Consequences” not sure why it’s causing so much difficulty
SD because of the time spent on xe

NC it’s directly relevant - I don’t see how much more relevant it can be
[we continue]
NC so she can’t put an ooo on can she
MD no
NC which means email go unanswered

As you may have spotted,CloudFlare fell over and twitter went down - it now appears to be back up. The following tweets are made from contemporaneous notes so they read as if in real time, but they are not.]

From NW

MD she also had a docs ireland address
NC maybe, but she couldn’t see any BFF emails - and people might think she was being rude
MD or off sick, like she was
NC even off sick she could have put an ooo
MD or I could as I was doing all the IT

NC did you
MD no
NC and you removed her from the shared drive
MD that was not at the same time

NC it was around the same time - so she was effectively as a factory worker locked out of the factory
MD I don’t accept that

NC she had no email access, she was taken off the staff page, she was removed from the shared drive and then you asked for her keys - no wonder she felt she had been de facto suspended

MD says she borrowed SM’s keys and left them for her in the office and that SM could have come into the office at any time.

NC moves on to the trans-identifying man offering manicures and MD’s allegation was thaht SM said “urgh not with it”, calling the TiM it. Stand by it
MD yes
NC shocking and unpleasant

MD very odd - couldn’t quite believe I heard it
NC did you hear it?
MD yes
NC worse - that’s transphobia isn’t it - that’s what it looks like
MD yes

NC why not discipline her for it - could have reflected v badly on her
MD we were the only people in the room
NC and the man doing the manicures
MD the person who was part of the exhibit

NC but if he had heard that it would have reflected v badly on the BFF
MD I don’t know that
NC if she had behaved that way it was certainly misconduct
MD it was odd

NC are you asking the tribunal to believe referring to a TiM as “it” in his presence and in his earshot was not misconduct
MD I was trying to get my head round it - odd
NC it would be gross misconduct nad therefore dismissal wouldn’t it

From NW

MD taking someone to task on this would be… and I did take note of it to talk to her about it
NC do you still have that note
MD I don’t know
NC hasn’t been disclosed has it

MD I don’t know. It may well be
NC if it had happened it would be alarming that SM felt able to behave in such a shocking way in front of her manager. She might do it again any time.
MD what’s your q

NC alarming she could behave that way in front of a manager
MD depends on the view of the manager
NC so she thought you might agree with her and could behave how she liked
MD no

NC didn’t discipline her
MD no
NC didn’t raise it at next supervision meeting
MD no

NC and if you’d told her her behaviour was unacceptable we would have heard about it
MD agrees
NC so if this story is true it reflects badly on you as her manager
MD I should have done something about it

NC putting it more strongly you were in gross neglect if your duty
MD I think might have said “that’s a bit much”
NC if that’s true its nowhere near sufficicent
MD no

NC but if it was true it would be clear evidence of transphobia on SM’s part and would need to be addressed in the investigation
MD possibly
NC it would be in the bundle as part of the response to the claim

MD it was in an answer in a q to you
NC it came up in xe of SM
MD it was an answer to your q about SM’s views. I can give you other examples. I heard her talking in the office about someone putting up billboards being paid for by a rich donor “oh I...

wonder if he’s eligible batchelor” and [something something Women’s Rights Network ????]
NC do you know the difference between being Gender Critical and transphobic

MD I would hope so
NC can you give us an example
MD not off the top of my head
NC this allegation about SM’s transphobia is completely made up isn’t it

From NW

MD no
NC but there was something in that exhibition which might generate disgust, isn’t there?
[we turn to the bundle]

[NC takes her to an image as part of the exhibition - it is a man with his breasts are in a suction pump.]

I have the image - warning - you may not want to see it

Twitter won't let me post it up - which is odd as I think it was taken from social media

It was an image on display in the gallery when SM allegedly made her transphobic comment. One more go...

I'll have to do some censoring - it won't let me upload it

Here you go...

NC are you aware some men have a sexual fantasy of being milked like a cow
MD no
J where is this taking us
NC what we are seeing is a pornogrpahic images influenced by SF

MD looks like it
NC and this is what autogynophiles do - they like to use abusive images of objectified women- do you know what an AGP is?
MD no

NC this image is sexual harassment of every woman who walks past, especially a woman having to walk past it on her way to work - you knew full well
J are you suggesting MD took her here deliberately
NC no
J what are you suggesting

I tried to add the image but MN may have censored see NW post ]

From NW

[NC has lost her thread]
NC you were well aware this image was on dsiplay and the claimant was being exposed to something “truly disgusting” and so that was what gave you the cover to come up with the “lie” that she referred to a TiM as “it”

MD I don’t accept that whatsoever
NC the claim of the case is discrim for political belief - against SM for her GC views - and her 16 April speech. That’s why you’re giving evidence
MD I’m giving evidence because SM has come up with some “flimsy notions” - we were not

disciplining her, we were working actively to get her back into her role in the office
NC you didn’t ever make your conduct about your belief that she was transphobic
MD she kept telling me she wasn’t
NC I think you’re agreeing with me

MD she was organising a rally, she was speaking against her client groups
NC why smear her as a transphobe - which you gave at the beginning of your evidence in chief
MD because I was being asked about her gender critical views

NC try again - what made you think about telling the tribunal she called a man “it”
MD because I was asked about how I knew SM had GC views I was thinking of a series of examples and that one popped into my head.
NC and you still say I asked you that

MD someone in this room did
NC well maybe SD can fill us in later. No further q’s

re-ex

SD you were asked about 3 July email responses
[takes her to “Thanks Michele. Sounds exciting. I'll share this with our organising group in Rainbow Refugees. Our group
email address is [gives email.- NW posted it but I won't]
Take care
Catherine”]

SD how would you describe it.
MD as accepting and engaging and the sort of email response I had hoped we would get
[no further re-ex]
[we break for lunch to resume at 1.30pm]

From NW

[we have resumed]
SD calles Keara (correct) Paterson (KP)
[she takes the oath]
[she confirms her witness statement is true and accurate account of your evidence]

SD and do you wish to adopt it as your evidence
KP no. I mean yes
SD okay please speak slowly and clearly and do speak up you are v softly spoken
NC you are a senior HR pro with more than 6 years service as per the date of your WS

KP 3 Nov yes
NC you have 5 years of carrying out complex greivances and appeals
KP yes
NC so in July 2023 you would have had 2 to 3 years exp
KP yes

NC your allocation to this grievance was not your choice
KP yes
NC “all the decision making around who was doing what was decided by other people, senior people”
KP yes
NC were you then, quite inexperienced

KP no
NC you are presenting 2 to 3 years as senior are you
[KP says something about prior experience in London]
[NC takes her to the bundle]

ooo = out of office

"No. I mean yes," is not the most promising beginning, is it? 🤣

They do that a lot more nowadays but until the recent past local delivery drivers or postal staff tended to deliver to the house of the matriarch of a family and she would distribute the post to the various children when they popped in to visit her. Which being good culchie kids they did practically every day. Lots of the families lived down very small and winding roads (with steep braes and grass down the middle and huge potholes) and it takes a long time to deliver all the post to each individual house so it was quicker to just deliver multiple items of post to one house.

To be honest, we have our own way of doing things on the border 😬😂

From NW

NC the policy envisages that grievances should be dealt with at the earliest possible oppo?
KP yes
NC reads “The objective of this procedure is to provide an employee (or ex-employee) who has a

grievance, with the opportunity to have it examined quickly and effectively and where a
grievance is deemed to exist, to have it resolved if possible, at the earliest practicable
moment”

moment”
[NC giving timeline of when grievance opened and grievance began]
NC given you were running the grievance (G) is it fair that no material steps were taken until you took over
KP yes

This
NC do you know the difference between being Gender Critical and transphobic
MD I would hope so
NC can you give us an example
MD not off the top of my head

Then also this
NC why smear her as a transphobe - which you gave at the beginning of your evidence in chief
MD because I was being asked about her gender critical views

Different, but also the same...

Is/was Keara Paterson a Think Person?

Does anyone know whay 'influenced by SF' means in the contexts of the AGP male photo?

Yes.

I think NW's Twitter has gone down as he hasn't tweeted for 10 minutes. Expect a long post when he's back.

SF Sexual Fantasy I think

Maybe it is a group, but sexual fetish comes to my mind.

Sexual fantasy?

Thank you - I guess sexual fetish would work too.

I was thinking it referred to a particular artist or film or something