Sara Morrison v BFF Thread 3

[SexRealistic]

For background please read here:

https://genderblog.net/sara-morrison-v-belfast-film-festival/

It's the usual Irish language version of William.

That would be good.

JKR I would be really ok with smaller gaps and smaller books tbh - ok?

Not short for - the Irish version. Like Seán is the Irish "equivalent" of John.

Having an Irish name suggests a Catholic heritage and Irish nationality, while using the English version is aligned with British nationality/Protestant religion.

It would be pretty unusual for someone to Anglicise a name like Liam in certain contexts - it's a pretty common Irish name.

For the dim and non aware among us is there some Catholic/Protestant signal wrt Billy vs Liam?

I think because the JK Fund is paying for SM’s legal team it behooves her to stay quiet. I’m sure she will be paying close attention but we may never get to hear her take on it. Loads of folk will be waiting in the wings to challenge legal fairness if she makes any comment on cases being supported by her fund.

Totally.

If she was an academic professor with a publication record then deletions wouldn't be possible. She'd be in Google Scholar and the big research publishers' databases. If she isn't an academic professor then she might not have that.

And apart from that she may not have much online profile. It was an extreme allegation and I would have wanted to check it out very thoroughly before raising it in court. Unless NC had already been given evidence of deletions (e.g from archive sites) I'd want her to do a thorough trawl before making that kind of allegation.

I feel as if I should put on every hat I own and take them off in succession to all the posters here for their digging skills and the time put in.
May your paths be strewn with rose petals and confectionary.💐

It’s odd as there are lots of catholic bills around but I don’t know any catholic billys or any Protestant Liams. Billy has a resonance to King Billy.

Yes:

• King Billy, Prince of Orange is a Protestant hero.
• Liam is an Irish language name, so aligned with an independent Irish national identity.

Yes, looked throughly unpleasant, derivative and misogynistic.

Of course I might read it and find it delightful and thrilling. But I don’t think so.

Absolutely. I'm feeling quite sad at the prospect of the tribunal collapsing tomorrow because the submissions would be glorious. I'm still not quite over my glee on reading the SP submissions. 😁

Whereas in the rest of the country they are just various aspects of the same name - in my extended family one William was called Bill when small to distinguish him from his dad Billy, but changed to Liam when he went to secondary school, and answers happily to any version (no deadname nonsense), one Uncle Bill was Will to his wife, Liam to gaeilgeoir civil service coleagues.

There was the late Billy McKee who ran the IRA in Belfast in the early 70s, but Catholic Billys are thin on the ground. I've literally never heard of a Protestant Liam.

If I were a sociologist though, I'd be tempted to do a class breakdown of the Protestant community based on Sammys and Trevors.

Yes, from Uilliam, which is the Irish/Scottish Gaelic form of the name William.

I know one Uilliam (in Ireland) and he doesn’t shorten his name, but it’s a rarely used name ime. Most Liams are just Liam, or have William on the birth cert.

I'm finding all this local info absolutely fascinating.

Thanks so much, everyone.

I love how much I learn about things I didn't know I didn't know on Mumsnet.

Ok hive mind…..

Anyone Union minded? Anyone with experience. They’re at the heart of this aren’t they. And they just stand and let the women hang in the wind.

NIPSA just waves through policy that leads to penises in single sex spaces for women. And someone instrumental is doing that.
@SionnachRuadh you’re making brilliant points.

What is a Whitley or what not?

A wee google gives stuff around Central Whitley Equal Opportunities Committee between 2015 and 2018.

Is this Norn Ireland? Or Civil service across the country? What is a Whitley Council?

I will send flowers or donations as the successful finder sees fit.

Absolutely and, in fact, not necessary to make the actual
allegation because the hint of knowing the lack of justification for using the title Prof should be enough to see her off. The fact that DB likely has a brass neck and be willing to fight it out was perhaps not enough for the EJ.

I don’t think the EJ will have challenged her on it but perhaps encouraged her to recuse herself because maybe DB had been a moaning Minnie about her condition a lot behind the scenes and it would be the best outcome as it would mean the recusal being denied would be on record (although easy to find out the underlying scandal).

I suspect EJ was preoccupied in trying to find the means to stand up her assertion that she would be releasing MD from her oath over the weekend rather than interrogation Boyd’s creds.

The funniest Williamite usage I heard in the last few months was a radio presenter pronouncing 'Guillemot' in the French way - perfectly correct in one way since their name means little William, but she came back later to say she'd been told (repeatedly, I suspect) the correct English language pronunciation.

Lot and lots of Willies in Ireland, it doesn't have the slang meaning it has in English.

Apologies to posting purists for going off at a tangent. Slightly in my defence, in anything in NI, analysing the 'community' resonances of names is a part of learning what is happening.

There is a thing with Irish first names that the name someone is known by isn't necessarily what's on the birth cert. I suspect it's similar in Wales.

Now my surname (stereotypically Scottish, but common enough in both communities in the north) does have Gaelic versions, but I've never heard anyone use them in the wild, and if I encountered someone who did, I'd probably assume it was a pose.

The only thing missing from that recusal was Boyd snatching up her "professor" name plaque as she mouthed thank you at NC.

This clutch of tribunals is going to make riveting telly - here's hoping for a Nick Wallis/Glinner/JKR collab. And the local insights on these threads...bring out the popcorn

2 caveats:

• I'm not from NI and have Irish Catholic heritage, so not an expert on the local subtleties and may have unexplored biases in my gross simplification here

• Also accidentally used a username that I usually reserve for parenting topics, so haven't actually popped up out of nowhere!

I didn’t meet him until this week to be fair so it’s not outing. I am in the room so I am out to anyone attending. And I’m so peaked I’m probably going to out myself soon.

It’s so insidious and brave women like Sara call it out so clearly. Then they get called agitators and are sidelined and cast out.

The (fairly) recent popularity of Irish names in the wider UK, even among those with no real Irish links, probably obscures the inferences that can be made with respect to different backgrounds.
I’ve always wondered why my mother’s older brother William was known as Billy. Her family was Irish Catholic from Kilkenny and points west and she and her siblings lived through the Easter rising, war of independence and the formation of the Republic. They encountered the Black and Tans. But Billy was Billy. Even William itself seems an unusual name for a Catholic.
The Anglo-Irish family my grandfather worked for, by contrast, gave their children noticeably Irish names.