Sara Morrison v BFF Thread 3

[SexRealistic]

For background please read here:

https://genderblog.net/sara-morrison-v-belfast-film-festival/

I'm currently feeling rather torn.

I really want NC and CE to go in there tomorrow and bring the whole tribunal system down.

Then I remember that Sara faces the very real possibility of her tribunal going completely and utterly irredeemably tits up, and I really don't want her to go through that.

Gaaaaaaaah!

I love that so many Mumsnetters are getting a legal education (I am learning so much myself).

Maybe Naomi can run legal training sessions for aspiring TERFs.

Lesson one

Calmly pick up a big rock.
Chose one of your simple phrases.
"You can surely agree that all people that exist and have ever existed and will exist will be birthed from a woman, yes?"
"You can see that Bolshie Bish said some bad things on twitter" and proceed to read out said gruesome text very calmly.
"Its true isn't it that you cannot change your sex".

Your ideologically captured victim will soon start to splutter - spectrum, flora and the fauna, I want to be kind, I don't know my chromosones and all manner of jibberish.

While this occurs take the very large rock in your hand and drop it into the water.

Take a sip of water and smile calmly around the room. 🙈

Never mind Sara's life being at stake - this thread is filling up rightly and I have thread anxiety.

@ickky can you do the honours in due course?

We could charge to do the DD for them. Mumsnet verfied (c)!

@NebulousSupportPostcard Not at all, I probably went in a bit narky. I see now you were just thinking out loud, and I don’t disagree many people have had to push ahead through sheer gumption. I don’t see that as the issue or potential problem with DB though being on the panel in the ET.

On the video, I’m now at the point that ‘Riser’ said he was as mad as a bucket of wee. After DB saying she was an employment judge a couple of times again.

Though she knows what the networking is like. Perhaps she is a warrior like Sandie Peggie

The rock was so big she had Charlotte come to help with the lift.

MAD AS A BUCKET OF WEE tshirts needed for tribunal panellists @Cailleach1@Boiledbeetle

A friend was recently dismissed from her workplace and ironically NIPSA, who Michael McKeown works for , felt they couldn't legally support her to tribunal stage.Obviously they need to protect their funds etc and only support those with a v high chance of success.
However, she was then faced with remortgaging her home or dropping the case.Due to complicated caring responsibilities and the fact that she has zero income she had to drop her case.
I have serious concerns at how barrister/solicitor heavy the tribunal process has become but that's another matter.If my friend had remortgaged to defend herself against what appears to have been an unfair dismissal I never for one moment would have doubted the validity of the process.This case has created all sorts of concerns and I'm unsure how they can be addressed.I wait with interest.

I think NC will leave the judiciary to deal with the misuse of Professor now that Boyd is recused as it’s not really in her client’s interests to pursue it anymore. She’s lit the spark and can admire the fireworks from a distance.

My Twitter algorithm isn’t showing much action on that so perhaps it will be a slightly damp sparkler rather than à Catherine wheel so to speak.

From the estimable digging of Mumsnetters there is no smoking gun with McKeowan either so NC will probably leave things where they are, if our info to date is accurate, because there might be gold still to mine from MD.

Having petitioned for the ET and MM to be recused there might be room for appeal if any of the judgement reveals bias. I suspect they will be very careful of that now.

I still think the panel will rule that SM and NC made a mountain out of a molehill and that’s because I do think they are biased and I doubt MM has any understanding of the issues women and girls have to deal with. I think EJ is biased against NC.

If you haven’t had YouTube premium before, they give out free trials - just saying

I'm not convinced that Mr McKeown needs to recuse himself - his involvement was as PPs have said in carrying out and reporting back on a survey of members as a TU rep. Also the NIPSA LGBT document is pretty clear that sex and gender are different

gender and biological sex are different; gender is not inherently connected to one’s physical anatomy.
An individual’s sex is biological and includes physical attributes such as sex
chromosomes, gonads, sex hormones, internal reproductive structures, and external genitalia. At birth, this is used to identify the individual as either male or female.
Gender or gender identity, on the other hand, is more intricate. Along with one’s
physical traits, it is the complex interrelationship between those traits and one’s
internal sense of self as male, female, both or neither as well as one’s outward
presentations and behaviours related to that identity.

It doesn't stop them then letting gender override sss but maybe is a little bit less bonkers than some statments I've seen - eg NHS Fife where this distinction seems to be beyond most of the doctore.

Just to be clear, I'm sure DB is very good at what she does and plenty of people with just o'levels go on to do well, but they don't take credit from people who have genuinely worked hard for their PHDs and legal qualifications.
As for the videos, she's so far up her own erse, she can lick her nostrils clean.
Is there any way to get these video links to SM, NC and CE, and they can decide what, if anything to do with it (during/after the case).

I self funded mine for very little right up to the hearing stage
it was under £2000 as I did all the research for my solicitor
then I settled
and got what I needed out of the situation

I am 100% sure that this thread is being VERY closely watched

But if our team don’t get what they want they will appeal, surely?. And all the digging here and elsewhere might well add some fuel to the fire. If its only a rehearing because no EAT in NI, would still be shot across the bows. And bias is a good reason for a rehearing, better than the damages being on the small side, I would guess

Pulitzer Prizes for everyone IMO!

It's the Court of Appeal in Northern Ireland & it's not a rehearing.

It wasnt unexpected because she would have known it was a case about freedom of gender critical/ sex realist beliefs. She could have recused herself on reading day.

Just because she doesn't like the language doesn't mean she gets to scowl.

I thought we were told earlier it’s a rehearing or CA because no EAT?

Having read the guidelines for lay members of the et I'm assuming that M McKeown is there in his own right, with some of his relevant experience having been gained through NIPSA but he's not solely there as a NIPSA worker.
As a member of NIPSA I'm struggling with his role.I can see that ordinarily he could bring useful knowledge to the table but this is a highly complex case in comparison with most We're told that the panel members have equal importance.If SM is unsuccessful what are the implications, if any, for NIPSA. Is his role to represent the experience of the employee, was DB's role to represent the employer side.How can they process without that duality of lay members?
Is there a high chance this case could collapse tomorrow?

There is a mad load of grifting goes on in NI. This is a supreme example. She definitely needs called out. Not sure how this fits in within the context of this tribunal. I would definitely love all the shit hitting the fan! I am guessing that all these people are on the catholic side of the divide. Although sturgeon is an unusual catholic name. It is so unfortunate that being associated with ‘definitely not wanting men in women’s changing rooms and being averse to voyerism etc’ means you are aligned with homophobia, racism, fascism. And that it means you’re ‘not kind’ and you are for ‘hate’. Who positioned it all that way? That’s a rhetorical question.

I dont think using the wrong titles are grounds for appeal, and now that DB has recused herself, she's not involved in the decision making (although could still have influenced the other panel members) so now she's gone, I'm not sure of grounds for appeal, unless anything else happens in the next week. Outside of the tribunal, she should be investigated and the ET system tightened up.

Disclosure - I am on the catholic side of the divide and am very much for gay marriage. I support and love our gay community. I am also not racist. But I would be considered trans phobic because I absolutely do not believe that trans women are women. They are definitely biological men.

But does it fit with the (I think it's 5) principles of public life which they're supposed to adhere to?