Your Corbyn/Sultana Party - Discussion thread - Part 2

[fromorbit]

The YP starting conference is in the ACC in Liverpool between 29-30 November so only three weeks off. With competing factions involving Islamic conservatives, every variety of Marxist/Communist, former Labour members, trade union activists, entryists from SWP and SPEW, splitters from the Scottish Greens, trans activists and actual left wing feminists [not the nice kind] it is difficult to underplay how much controversy there is likely to be. So we will need a second thread in advance.

Thus far following the internal drama of the UKs newest left party has taken a whole thread. It has been a wild ride and the party still does not have a name.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5394557-your-corbynsultana-party-discussion-thread

Yeah, the point is surely that Corbyn might take a TWAW stance, but he's got decades of experience working in coalitions and he doesn't insist that allies should agree with him on everything. He's prepared to say "Adnan has his view on this issue and I have mine, but we're friends and allies and work together well."

Sultana on the other hand has deliberately used cultural wedge issues to raise her profile and damage those who might compete for the spotlight. It's how she works. She might dial it down today for tactical reasons, but she'll be back doing it tomorrow.

Yes I wonder whether the trans activists will 'respect the views of others' or revert to form, shouting 'words are literally violence' and issuing death and rape threats? Maybe that will just be reserved for women and they will let the male socially conservative element of the party to say what they want? Maybe that's why they haven't mentioned women as a vulnerable group? None of them could care less about women really. That's what they have in common.

If I remember correctly they already think she might be secretly soft on TERFs bc Mark Serwotka and Salma Yaqoob I think are on her faction. I'm losing track to be honest

I'm losing track to be honest.

Diagram needed.

Seconded. Though I think given how interchangeable the feuds and factions are it would have to be 3 d or like watching the various blobs form, merge and split in a lava lamp

Grim

Justin Schlosberg

one of the most bizarre and sadly telling moments of the Your Party conference: at one point the chair asked for a 'female' speaker to counter balance the platform, but she was heckled and had to apologise for not using gender inclusive language.

Earlier in the thread we mentioned the Trans Liberation Group they were at conference and put in various motions a key amendment being Motion 367: EXPLICITLY MENTION TRANS LIBERATION which would enshrining deeply sexist ideas into the party. Result of the online vote should come out today.

Trans Liberation Group

Our motion to explicitly include trans liberation - not just trans rights - was just debated in Conference to overwhelming support from the floor.

Interestingly their X feed ha not mentioned Browning's antics is he with them or not?

"Adnan has his view on this issue and I have mine, but we're friends and allies and work together well."

I agree that Sultana is using differences of opinion to smear opponents, but the idea that people should put differences aside, especially around identity, is alien to many of her supporters. They dont want a future with people who arent TWAW or small c conservative.

Its why the greens are still banging on about trans rights when they know its a lost cause, because they know theres a sizable group who will go wherever their identities are prioritised.

The ‘big four’ (actually it’s now the big six) and their integrated supply chains do indeed operate very efficiently. But that operational efficiency is driven entirely by competitive markets, customer choice & the need to make sustainable profits & shareholder returns. Not by soviet-style five year plans.

Would I be correct in thinking you have never done a hard-headed commercial job in a competitive market yourself?

According to X the motion passed with large majority.

Well that answers who is better at mobilising support in the party.
However it also indicates that the Gaza MP faction is on borrowed time I think. The 5 pillars types are not going to accept this well.

I think Gaza Independents are going to end up doing their own thing and attract support from YP. They may be rather better at winning elections. We shall see.

Council by-elections are showing Gaza Independent candidates handily winning elections in places like Burnley.

The big question will be with next May's local elections, when a bunch of the 40-odd councillors who have joined YP will be up for election. Hearing suggestions that some will run as independents with Corbyn's personal endorsement rather than under the YP banner.

There will be differences across localities of course. The Walsall YP group look like Gaza candidates to me, while the Hastings group look more like generic Labour left (and, being Hastings, they could easily be gobbled up by the Greens)

Coventry will be electing a full council in May. Will there be a slate of Sultana-aligned candidates? Or any at all?

I wonder how the Gaza Independents are doing as MP's? That will be the most important thing I suppose in their re election. Are they actually representing all of their constituents? Are they working for all of them? Surely even the Muslim constituents would put their own local area and services over Gaza if push came to shove and they are stuck with someone who isn't doing anything? I don't know anything about them, although I do find the things Adnan Hussain says to be fair and reasonable I don't know what he is like as an MP for a UK constituency. I wonder how those Muslim MP's left in YP will campaign in their areas now? Will any of them explain what 'trans liberation' means? Because that will not be attractive to anyone apart from the most aggressive trans activists. They will lose people who don't care or who are just fluffy 'live and let live' types is my guess.

Yes May will be a big test. London alone offers potential wins for a well organised left party. I suspect though it will be Greens and Gaza Indies who will be doing the winning.

Wales and Scotland with PR is even more interesting.

Wales and Scotland YP are definitely thinking of running and YP Scotland is hostile to the Scottish Greens and have a base in Glasgow. Could be interesting. They may cost S Greens some list seats.

Patrick Maguire in the Times is harsh but fair - he's drawing on what Team Corbyn are telling him, and I don't think they're wrong.
Your Party’s spectacular own-goal squanders a golden opportunity

What a bunch of deplorables (in the words of Hillary Clinton) they sound. Why were they sidelining activists? Who is he talking about? Why did they openly mock someone for having a regional accent? Sounds like Sultana has succeeded in gathering together the worst most disruptive elements of the Left to do what they always do and destroy everything they touch. Thank God they are irrelevant losers.

'Committing to the fight for trans liberation - Yes 71.79%, No 28.21%
Explicitly Mention Trans Liberation - Yes 68.46%, No 31.54%

The two motions alter the text of the founding documents of Your Party to commit to fight for trans liberation.'

Ruh roh.

https://www.reddit.com/r/transgenderUK/comments/1pbatyu/your_party_passes_commitment_to_trans_liberation/

Not quite sure where this is from, though.

The website has 'evolved' documents. I assume it's like Pokemon.

https://www.yourparty.uk/founding-documents/

I wonder how much of the membership subs came from Sultana supporters? There are enough of them, but probably not enough in one place to get many seats in councils, let alone parliament. Same with the Corbyn support.

The independents will get votes in local and national elections, but how many of their voters would pay membership for YP?

At best, ZS could fund a pressure group but not form a party, and the independents can wait until they have the numbers of elected politician to form their own party and ignore socially progressive issues.

I dont see whats in it for the independents, apart from the cash.

If Sultana is basing herself on the sects, they just don't have the concentration of support to win anywhere, except maybe Michael Lavalette and his team in Preston, if they align with her which I'm not sure they do. And I'm not sure Preston counts because Michael has been a councillor for years, and even though he's in Counterfire his local team are effectively Gaza Independent.

There will be a scattering of YP councillors who have enough personal popularity or strong local groups to get re-elected but I can't estimate how many of those will be YP (Sultana). They'll probably rely heavily on local Greens giving them a free run.

Corbyn of course is old and I'm not sure he will stand again in Islington North. I noticed former Islington councillor, ex-MP Claudia Webbe, was very prominent at conference.

The Gaza MPs and councillors can just keep on going and building their base. They don't even need to declare a formal party. In Birmingham it's going to be more valuable to have the endorsement of Ayoub Khan than to have YP beside your name.

Claudia Webbe? Wasn't she the one who was convicted of harassing a love rival? They really are gathering an odd collection of people. I'm surprised Lutfer Rahman hasn't got involved!

👏

. I'm surprised Lutfer Rahman hasn't got involved!

He /Aspire actually was one of the initial consultees.

Blimey what is the criteria here? Commit any criminal offence you like including electoral fraud but all is forgiven as long as you are pro Pal?

Telegraph article kind of outdated now YP is explicitly pro-trans

Zarah Sultana heckled as Your Party row erupts over Muslim views on trans rights
Journalist from Islamic news site interrupts party co-founder’s speech to demand answers on ‘socially conservative purge’

https://archive.is/wXr5I

Since when has the hard left ever given a tuppenny fuck about women?

As for food production, it’s all a bit Pol Pot with his ideas of agrarian revolution and ‘the happy peasant’. I mean, it ended with 25% of the Cambodian population dead and Russia’s collectivisation didn’t go much better but I’m sure it’ll be fine this time round. What’s a few famines between comrades?