Your Corbyn/Sultana Party - Discussion thread - Part 2

[fromorbit]

The YP starting conference is in the ACC in Liverpool between 29-30 November so only three weeks off. With competing factions involving Islamic conservatives, every variety of Marxist/Communist, former Labour members, trade union activists, entryists from SWP and SPEW, splitters from the Scottish Greens, trans activists and actual left wing feminists [not the nice kind] it is difficult to underplay how much controversy there is likely to be. So we will need a second thread in advance.

Thus far following the internal drama of the UKs newest left party has taken a whole thread. It has been a wild ride and the party still does not have a name.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5394557-your-corbynsultana-party-discussion-thread

Men have crossed dressed for years, and have been influential enough be able alter their passports going back a long time. That indicates that it always included well connected people. The news of the world always had story about cross dressing judges.

Whats odd is that its no longer hiden and shameful. They arent making secret changes, but are open about it.

The difference i suppose is the internet. Access to drugs, women pushing back and girls and young women having a different (maybe parallel) but called the same thing movement, have all forced the discussion because more people are exposed to it. The numbers of men wanting to perform all of the time has dramatically increased too. The idea that theyve always been around, but didn't see them, makes more sense when they just used to hang round in men only clubs.

I dont think its a religion, because there's nothing behind it. No one can agree what trans is. I dont think it would be possible to have a leader- anything they say would alienated half of their flock.

I get your analysis, can't imagine it's anything other than 100% correct.
But in any world changing movement, political, religious, civil rights, you can still point to one iconic character, even if not a defacto leader.
Look at the response to TRA.
You can point to JKR, the vocal and visible figures at Sex Matters etc, any number of iconic resisters to the toxic tidal flow.
The New Atheist movement, the anti-woo voices, Dawkins, Hitchens, Goldacre etc.
Are we really saying this movement was under cover of darkness, the activist men who collected on the anonymity of the Internet message boards 20-25 years ago to plot the GRA, slipping it slickly into law while parliamentarians and law makers were sweet talked by the same men with promises of societal improvement and a whole cohort of men's lives which would go from suicidal to enlightened, enlightening society as a whole? What bleeding heart liberal MP or Lord or legal expert would deny the chance of happiness to so many unhappy?
Of course we then go back a couple of decades from the TRAs pushing for the GRA in early 2000s, to those in Holland pushing a whole new area of medicine, trans medicalisation, finding as they create the medical criteria, they literally create the patients. Liberal Western society must tack to the removal of hurt from peoples, those caught in the crossfire (women) must adapt to mitigate unintended consequences. Society can only be kind if it brings all it's minorities up.
And then the Great Awokening and Stonewall Law, the last decade, where the originators of this cult (the Dutch male doctors in the 80s 90s, the male TRA legislative activists in late 90s early 00s) give way to society seemingly only too quick and easy to self radicalise, now horizontal transmission becomes the norm, with ROGD, freeze on free speech, cancel culture, and the solidifying of intersectionalism in every institution since about 2012 (as specified by Lionel Schriver).
This is getting on for four decades now.

Of course it's self serving.

But the question is why they have flipped on these issues. And not only social ones, but economic issues which many would say were at the heart of what the whole concept of right and left are.

Because left v right, the old class war, ended in '89-'92 when the Wall came down. Capitalism won, Communism lost. We were then told in a well regarded book that was the End Of History. And it sure felt like it, that seamless Clinton-Blair third way, America the unipolar power, Putin driving a minicab in Moscow, China not even on the radar as a threat, but all those lovely cheap Nikes and other consumer stuff we couldn't get enough of.
Then, just as we're settling down to the End Of History on a Groundhog Day loop, a certain Osama Bin Laden started bombing American interests in N. Africa in '98/'99, we know what happened just 2-3 years later, the End Of History became the big unravelling, weaponised by the banking crash at the end of the decade, we've never recovered, China is now a wraith over the world, Putin has returned to late-19th century war making with 21st century tech, and Trump is reinforcing Spheres Of Influence not seen for 150 years.
What did the left do in the meantime? Did it look to counter globalisation, push for onshoring, push back against mass migration, at all deter illegal immigration, pull us together with colorblind policies and putting toxic trans ideology and associated cancel culture back in the ground where they belong?
No, it's said nothing about the future of work, it fell for the biggest cons ie intersectional IDentarianism, and in doing so, drove a schism thru Western societies.
Even now, while the UK is floundering, where we need to get in top of our spiralling debt, infinity welfare state, frankly frightening lack of growth, total inertia in the machinery of state, Starmer has no answers, and the imbeciles cosplaying at adult politics ie SNP are fucking around with burning precious invaluable social capital in pushing for trans in women's jails. It's batshit insane.
The left has flipped on any serious class analysis because they lost in 89-92, they've been looking for something ever since, and have landed in the worst possible answer, a mix of turgid technocratic nothing governance (Starmer) fused with echo chamber virtue signalling (SNP).
2029 will see for the left.

Hmm...they are definitely predatory and controlling.

The definition of cult is quite narrow though and JW (as well as the Moonies) are technically a 'high-demand religious movement', not a cult.
.

What's a "low demand" one? Lol.
I'm quite intrigued by this. What constitutes a religion, cult, caste, movement?
I deem TRA as a horizontally transmitted phenomenon, unlike the more typically vertically transmitted cult of personality type.
What other purely horizontally transmitted movements are out there?
Is this the first movement that is wholly middle/upper class in origin, the more intelligent (apparently) the object, the more they go for it.
Don't see any working class masses falling for this phantasm.

I'm interested in cults/sects etc, I'll post more in a minute.

It's not true that trans kids are muddle class only.. They seem to be overrepresented among kids in care. Julie Bindel has written about this.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=unherd.com/2023/01/blackpools-forsaken-children/&ved=2ahUKEwjU1f2Q-J-SAxV5RkEAHST4DFMQFnoECFYQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3hLDDfNrEqPRD4EhccGd0i

I'm sure that's right, sorry I wouldn't have realized that.
Not only are kids in care exposed to unacceptable abuse and grooming gangs access, but they're thrown to the ghouls and wolves of adults promoting transition.
We are so seriously fucked up.

Is there not a bit of horseshoe theory happening.

The extreme fringes of the left were always anti-pharma to the point of being anti-vaccine, distrustful of science, wanted change through revolution/destruction of institutions (the police,.courts etc) rather than change through evolution/reform. The extreme fringes of the right basically believed the same thing (and you see people moving between the two extremes (eg crunchy moms) way more than you think). Both groups believe an elite group of wealthy globalist control the world (they sort of do TBF but there isn't one single grand QAnon style conspiracy).

The "liberal left" and the conservative movement (as we understand it in the UK) were never that extreme. I know plenty of people criticising the police, which frankly is often well deserved. But that's not the same as wanting them to be completely disbanded and replaced by either kumbyah singers or brown shirts. Likewise there are a LOT of real issues with big pharma (the US opioid crisis) but that doesn't mean all medicine is evil.

So I don't think there has been a massive switch in position between the left and right there. Instead, previously you were maybe hearing the left wing fringe talking about big pharma. Now it's the liberal left seeming to say it's good but they are not and were never the same people. In America particularly it seems the craziest people on Twitter were the ones left to control the narrative on everything. And in response to some of the crazy right wing stuff I think the more moderate (or sane) left became so focused on countering it that they now oversteer in terms of criticising pharma etc. But the left wing fringes who think all medicine is a Western capitalist conspiracy are still there too. They haven't changed.

Neither the extreme left or the extreme right believe in free speech (it's an effort for anyone to genuinely accept opposing views TBF). Which is why each side seems to switch position based on whether the "stochastic terrorism" is being committed by their side or the enemy.

Trans is an example of a very fringe belief that broke containment and affected a lot of more moderate people. I think, especially in America, there are a lot of beliefs that broke containment and affected the more mainstream right. Or the mainstream right became more extreme. But yes, I'd agree with you that it's connected to the way cults worked.

The economic stuff has become more extreme too. That was always inevitable though because the "old order" failed so obviously in 2008 and int je face of a lot of public anger was allowed to limp on with no real mainstream effort to correct it's flaws. So ideas which seemed fixed (to moderate left and moderate right thinkers) aren't. Hence the odd swirling of opinions.

The insightful discussion of YP's drama and how left wing politics works will continue.

Your Party Thread - Part 3
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5480020-your-corbynsultana-party-discussion-thread-part-3

Also pasted on the new thread
.

https://nitter.net/zarahsultana/status/2015498160395723195#m

War. It's bad

Zarah you got elected to Parliament as part of a pro military/NATO party. Now you are pretending you hate it?

Latest :

Jeremy Corbyn applies to remove Your Party from official register of companies just months after he launched it with co-founder Zarah Sultana following toxic infighting
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15503869/Jeremy-Corbyn-remove-Party-register-companies-Zarah-Sultana.html

Meanwhile other YP members are working to get Greens elected.

Prominent Your Party figure endorses Greens for Gorton & Denton by-election
Prominent Your Party member and former Respect Party leader Salma Yaqoob has endorsed the Greens in the upcoming Gorton and Denton by-election.

Yaqoob will appear alongside Green leader Zack Polanski at an event in Manchester on Tuesday evening, as the Greens start to ramp up their campaigning for a seat they are currently the favourites to win.
https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/your-partys-salma-yaqoob-endorses-greens-for-gorton-denton-by-election-402741/

Yaqoob used to occasionally write articles under the name "Sally Jacobs".

This is from way back in 2005

https://hurryupharry.net/2005/11/16/get-to-know-your-candidates/

A new Your Party faction just dropped.

Your Party Bolshevik Caucus

These ruthless admirers of Lenin hate the idea of alliance with the Greens in Gorton, but also have decided that biology isn't real.

Every time I read this kind of guff, I just can't not be reminded of Rick from the Young Ones and Wolfie Smith. And laughing my head off.

The IBT! The group that split from the Spartacist League because the Sparts were too right wing!

They're a strange little bunch. The only Trot tendency to be headquartered in New Zealand. And with a weird cultish element - they used to call their leader, Bill Logan, "Uncle".

Ewwwwwww.

Red flags alrighty

There have been lots of stories about the Spartacist League's weird internal life, including persistent ones about the late Spart guru Jim Robertson having an openly acknowledged harem.

Nobody cares much about the IBT because it's so tiny, but I doubt that the apple falls far from the tree.

Getting strong "My dad's tougher than yours!" "No, my dad's tougher than yours!" vibes.

How the far left and far right treat their women is Horseshoe Theory in action.

[Sigh]

ETA; how does one include images on this geriatric website?>

I just add gif

Gif?! We've had jpgs since 199bloomin2!
I will never understand the back end & modding on this site. 😂