Advice please - TIM teacher just arrived at DD’s school

[KnottyAuty]

DD reports that the new teacher has asked to be referred to as she/her and Ms Smith. They are obviously male. DD isn’t happy about the power imbalance of potential behaviour points and detentions for non compliance.

I’ve got no idea how to advice DD how to handle this but obviously know from reading here that using this language is a safeguarding problem. Ms Smith should follow the same rules as all the other male teachers. If everyone must use this language, then it looks like the school is unable to tolerate GC beliefs.

Suggesting that DD respectfully avoids pronouns doesn’t seem workable as using the teacher’s name will include “Miss”….

Is there a gender neutral way of referring to a teacher like “Professor”?!

What do I advise DD so she can work within her GC beliefs? And what should I write to the school to say about this?

eta clarification

I really can't imagine a secondary age child calling out 'teacher' or saying 'excuse me teacher' - I can't imagine anyone over 5 saying that tbh.

If dd needs to draw attention to herself I'd just say to put her hand up, she doesn't need to address the teacher then, just ask her question when noticed. If she has her hand up and the teacher doesn't notice her then she can say excuse me.

I wouldn't be encouraging her to 'be kind' and call him anything female as where does that end? If he says he's female and is referred to as female then why shouldn't he be in female only spaces? And resorting to nonsense like Mx is just buying into gender ideology, I'd give it a wide birth.

Avoiding pronouns is just another way of being forced to comply with GI.

She won’t be able to. Answering when the register’s taken, passing on messages, telling your form tutor who your maths teacher is… all will require “Miss” or “Ms Smith”.

Your daughter has to learn to balance holding firm to her beliefs, while living in a world where people with conflicting beliefs and legal rights exist, and muddling along together respectfully.

Calling a transwoman "Mr." or "Sir" to his face is probably tipping the balance too far: it would be your daughter drawing attention to her own beliefs, and forcing them on everybody else. It would also be very disruptive.

School is preparation for the world of work, and if she worked with a transwoman, she would have to call him by his chosen name and title.

I don't think transwoman should be allowed to flaunt their autogynephilia in public, let alone to schoolchildren, but we live in a world where he is legally protected in doing so. So whether she likes it or not, your daughter has to balance his legal rights with her own. See this as good practice for living in clown world.

She should just focus on getting on with her studying, and try not to bother the TIM teacher.

'MIiss' Smith is male. 'Miss' Smith is man. 'Miss' Smith is putting his own emotional and validation requirements ahead of his duty and responsibility to his pupils, by demanding they play along with him in entertaining the idea he is actually a woman. He is wilfully causing confusion in young minds and effectively teaching them not to trust their own eyes or their own instincts.

Now it's inappropriate to hire trans people?

This man doesn’t seem very prepared for the world of work, though, does he? Oh wait, no, it’s now fine to impose your personal beliefs on your colleagues, up to and including a denial of reality.

How has the world of work come to accept this?

I fully support you and your daughter OP. Noone should be compelled to use preferred pronouns or titles. I do as a choice.

Many consider it untruthful i.e. pronouns and titles refer to someone's sex, or to have negative consequences.

It's also not healthy to require the cognitive dissonance to think one thing and say another.

Finally we are seeing the court system agree - I recall one judge saying something like there would be no compelled speech in their court.

The same applies in schools imho. It should be acceptable to use Mx or Teacher or a respectful gender neutral alternative.

<a class="break-all" href="https://archive.is/2024.11.03-091945/philosophersmag.com/the-transgender-rights-issue" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://archive.is/2024.11.03-091945/philosophersmag.com/the-transgender-rights-issue/ might be helpful

PS If you contact the school try to use as non TERF terms as possible, trans identifying male not a good idea!

‘Teacher’?

Unlikely to be allowed. If the school has appointed this man, they are likely to support his wishes re validation.

I'd say it is definitely inappropriate to hire a man who dresses and presents as a woman in a school, yes, and especially if the children are expected to use female pronouns for him. What he does in his spare time is his business; but teachers have a duty of care and of safeguarding and there are rules around appropriate attire.

If a woman teacher identifies as a man, she can keep it to herself whilst at
at school and put her pupil's needs above her own. She can dress in a suit and shirt if she wishes, as this is more acceptable attire for a woman than a dress, cleavage and make-up are for a man.

How is he legally protected?

Any man displaying his sexual fetish in a girls school should not be there!

Like I said, clown world. You don't have to like it but he is legally protected in his behaviours.

He is legally entitled to strut about pretending to be a woman, and people will have to make a cursory pretense of playing along.

Yes, presenting as the opposite sex in front of school children is highly disruptive and provocative in itself. But he's allowed to, and the school employed him. So OP's daughter will have to learn to deal with it diplomatically.

“So I'm back to I'm not ok with asking children to do this extra contortion of thought on top of what they are actually supposed to be there for - learning!”

Apparently, it is important to them to have to do this to learn resilience and kindness and that their needs should never be priorititised above a male teacher’s philosophical beliefs.

I think IQ has been mentioned. Posters have been told that if they had been distressed at the confusion and dissonance of using wrong sex language that they needed to seek help.

All while supporting a male person’s language demand and some have supported his philosophical belief about his identity.

It has been an enlightening thread in so many ways.

Is it inappropriate to hire sexist people?

She is legally protected as well. So the school will have to make accommodations for that.

So a man, who has decided he is a woman, has gotten a job in a girls school where little girls can affirm his identity (and possibly do something else for him too).
fucking grim.
Im very much dress and identity how you want. Don’t expect anyone to believe in it and especially do not involve children in it.

Yes, I’m wondering this too. As in, how is imposing his beliefs on others protected? How is forcing children to deny reality protected?

The OP’s DD is certainly protected and the school need to address and accommodate that whether they like it or not.

😳 what can she do?

I couldn’t ask my dc to lie like this

You are making a lot of assumptions and catastrophising. As long as the teacher follows all the safeguarding rules that any teacher has to folllow, asking pupils to call them by a name of the opposite sex does not delegitimise females. I’m not really sure I know what you mean. It sounds a bit like you think the girls’ understanding of femaleness will be diluted in some way, which I doubt the odd trans teacher could achieve simply by existing.

You don't think that similar or analogous symptoms can have different roots (especially as between different demographics)?

How odd.

I know, I couldn’t either. But I have seen this played out in a school and that’s what happens.

The classroom really is the sharp end. In working environments colleagues can use first names and carefully avoid pronouns (and are more likely to know about Forstater) but the children are stuck.

The transgender teacher is legally protected from discrimination and harassment related to protected characteristic of gender reassignment. Not to force their beliefs on anyone else.

Nothing in the OP's post suggests they are doing anything other than looking for a way to treat them respectfully in a way compatible with their own legally protected beliefs.

It's a bit like a post saying I don't want to wish my customers Merry Christmas because I'm not Christian what do I do. You wish them an enjoyable festive season or something.

Only here many posters would actually say "I'm not Christian and I wish everyone 'Merry Christmas' there's no problem with expecting that it's just being polite!"

Sure noone is saying you can't, but compelling someone (such as someone who works in a shop and is Muslim) would be wrong.

The only way a man can identify as a woman is via sexist stereotypes. So his very identity is sexist.