Advice please - TIM teacher just arrived at DD’s school

[KnottyAuty]

DD reports that the new teacher has asked to be referred to as she/her and Ms Smith. They are obviously male. DD isn’t happy about the power imbalance of potential behaviour points and detentions for non compliance.

I’ve got no idea how to advice DD how to handle this but obviously know from reading here that using this language is a safeguarding problem. Ms Smith should follow the same rules as all the other male teachers. If everyone must use this language, then it looks like the school is unable to tolerate GC beliefs.

Suggesting that DD respectfully avoids pronouns doesn’t seem workable as using the teacher’s name will include “Miss”….

Is there a gender neutral way of referring to a teacher like “Professor”?!

What do I advise DD so she can work within her GC beliefs? And what should I write to the school to say about this?

eta clarification

The kids who accidentally called me "Miss" instead of "Mrs" had nothing wrong with their IQ. Every other teacher in the department went by "Miss". It's a perfectly understandable error.

And?

I think you missed that they’re a man.

Yes. Be kind.
Because the alternative is to be the sort of person I actively teach my children not to be.

You are hiding the fact by your theft of female language to refer to him. Not only is it insulting and harmful to women, your use is designed to hide this fact which is a huge safeguarding issue.

It is always people in positions of power who demand others ‘be kind’.

I don't see why it's dangerous. Everyone knows trans people exist. They are the bio sex they were born with but socially like to be known as the opposite.

Would you really want your daughter to just keep calling the teacher 'sir?' it would be disruptive and the teacher deserves to be treated with respect. You don't have to say you think they should use the female changing rooms or that they are an actual woman.

How about if they went to work and the boss was trans?

Like a doormat you mean. Someone who must always put others first and neglect their own conscience or needs.

You should try and teach your children to trust their own instincts and judgements, and that they have boundaries and integrity.

No, this is inaccurate.

Some men who call themselves 'trans' and wear women's clothing are fetishists.

Some are diagnosed with 'gender incongruence' related to body dysphoria.

'Trans' people are either male or female like the rest of us. They are not some unique and special category of person that defies reality.

Yes. Usually we ask for kindness from those who have more power than us.

But then, this is a civil rights movement that takes rights from women and hands them to men. It's not like other civil rights movements.

'If any of the children have asked much trouble with it as you seem to have, then perhaps this is a good opportunity for some support for their general IQ'

This is just an ad hom attack, suggesting anyone who doesn't comply has need of support for their IQ.

You are the bully here....dressed up in the guise of 'be kind'.

I'm an ex teacher. Teachers should not be imposing their personal fetishes and flights of fancy on their pupils. They can feel what they like in the privacy of their own home and their own mind, but they have no place in imposing an extreme ideological practice such as this onto their young charges. It is utterly manipulative and totally narcissitic.

I didn't say they were but why is it harmful to just call the teacher what they ask?

Yeah - but I don't require external validation so suggestions that my or my kids IQs need support just bounce straight off - no point reporting it as an attack as it's so weak, and just shows the kind of person the PP is.

Does this apply to adults? Such as the teacher?

I assume that is a rhetorical question?
If not, please go back and read the thread from the start.

@KnottyAuty I tried to read the whole thread but gave up at page 4 so no idea if anyone has said this already...
You don't have to answer these questions but these are the things I would be considering:
Age of your daughter
How disturbed your daughter might be by using a wrongsex title (some people don't care but for others it feels like lying)
Subject being taught
Number of contact hours
Whether or not there are any safeguarding issues (someone else mentioned this)
How much of a position are you/your daughter/your family in to raise this with the school considering the stress/effort this would involve.

I would factor all these in and I would talk to my daughter. I suppose I could go either way i.e. want to speak to the school or advise my daughter to just say Ms. I think titles bother me less than pronouns. I think a title is just like a first name in my head so if this person's first name is Ms then I don't care. Titles have traditionally been about signalling and affirming status so I'm already not a fan. I'm not sure I'd care if everyone started using Ms to be honest, I've always found it quite neutral. I wouldn't be using she/her though.

tell her to be kind. It doesn’t cost her anything

For fucks sake!!!

Just to give you some stats from my country. Lesbians are being subjected to corrective gang rape, having their heads stomped in or their eyes gouged out with broken bottles. A woman is raped roughly every 30 seconds and a child is raped every 6 minutes.

But no, we must be kind to the men!!!!!!!!

On a feminism board.

Un-fucking-believable.

Absolutely this. A male teacher does not have the right to involve minors in validating his fetish. He can dress up at home in the evenings and weekends. Children should be taught to value and respect truth, and not be asked to collude in an obvious lie. If you need resources to help you talk to the school you could look at https://protectteach.co.uk/about/

What 'sort of person' is that then?

Someone who prioritises the truth over fantasy?
Someone who advocates for the right of girls and women to single-sex spaces and the option of single-sex care?
Someone who thinks that men (who claim to be women) shouldn't be in women's prisons, female rape crisis centres, female wards, female shelters, etc.?
Someone who knows that 'preferred pronouns' obfuscates describing reality?
Someone who won't be bullied, shamed or 'no debated' into lying?

'Be kind' shouldn't mean 'be a doormat who prioritises the feelings of men, to put female people second and lie about reality to keep those men happy.'

You can be polite to people without using preferred pronouns and without insisting that students use 'Miss' for a male teacher.

Why is it that the school expects a child, someone elses child to be the one who is expected to to compromise herself ?

If any of the children have asked much trouble with it as you seem to have, then perhaps this is a good opportunity for some support for their general IQ

IQ is not something that changes with age. In an average school class there will be children with high, medium and low IQ. There may be some with learning disabilities and need additional support but this isn’t support ‘with their IQ’. They may certainly have difficulties grasping why a man wants to be referred to as a woman and requiring them to do so would not just be belief discrimination but also disability discrimination.

But that is not what you are thinking here is it? It is just plain old ableism.

The world is going seriously mad.

No it isn’t. Miss, Mrs and Ms are all female pronouns. Ms just means that marital status is not being revealed.
I have seen Mx used as a “ gender neutral “ pronoun but no idea how that is pronounced. I think , in her position, I would just say “ excuse me Teacher”
However- while I regard myself as gender critical, do not believe that TMAW and strongly believe that safe spaces for women need to be maintained-I think it is respectful to use the persons preferred pronouns and preferred name. This person is living as a Transwoman and have a right to choose to be called what they wish and to dress as they wish. This does not mean they should have access to women’s toilets, be invited for smear tests, change in the female dressing room etc etc but everyone is entitled to the respect and to be treated with dignity.