"Darlington Nurses" vs County Durham and Darlington NHS Trust Tribunal Thread 6

[ThreeWordHarpy]

Thread 1, 7-Oct to 23-Oct; pre-hearing discussion, KD (day 1 of evidence) and BH (day 2).
Thread 2, 23-Oct to 28-Oct; BH (day 2), CH, JP, MG (day 3&4), TH, SS, ST, LL (day 4), JS, AT (day 5)
Thread 3, 28-Oct to 29-Oct; AT (day 5&6), TA (day 6&7)
Thread 4, 29-Oct to 31-Oct; TA, AM (day 7) JB (day 8)
Thread 5, 31-Oct to 04-Nov; JB (day 8), SW, CG, JR (day 9)

Five nurses working at Darlington Memorial Hospital have filed a legal case suing their employer, an NHS trust, for sexual harassment and sex discrimination. The nurses object to sharing the women’s changing facilities with a male colleague, Rose, who identifies as female. The hearing started on October 20th, with evidence starting on October 22nd and is scheduled to last 3 weeks. To view the hearing online requests for access had to be made by October 17th. The hearing is being live tweeted by Tribunal Tweets who have background to this case on their substack. An alternative to X is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

The Judge made clear at the start of the public hearing on Day 1 that only TT or press have permission to tweet. If online observers see/hear something in the court that isn’t reported by TT, we don’t mention it until the next time there’s a break. This is a very cautious approach to avoid any accusations of “live reporting” on MN. Commentary on the content of TT tweets is fine as soon as they’re posted on X.

Key people:
C/Ns - Claimants, the Darlington nurses
R/T/Trust - Respondent, County Durham and Darlington NHS Foundation Trust
J/EJ – Judge/Employment Judge Seamus Sweeney
NF - Niazi Fetto KC, barrister for claimants
SC - Simon Cheetham, KC, barrister for respondents
RH - Rose Henderson, trans identifying nurse
CG – Clare Gregory, NHS ward manager
SW - Sue Williams, NHS Trust HR
KD – Karen Danson, first claimant to give evidence.
BH – Bethany Hutchison, claimant
AH – Alistair Hutchison, husband of Bethany
CH – Carly Hoy, claimant
JP – Jane Peveller, claimant
MG – Mary Anne (aka Annice) Grundy, claimant
TH – Tracy Hooper, claimant
SS – Siobhan Sinclair, witness for the claimants, retired from Trust
ST – Sharron Trevarrow, witness for the claimants, retired from Trust, former housekeeper and wellbeing officer
LL – Lisa Lockey, claimant
JP – Professor Jo Phoenix, expert witness
JS – Jane Shields, witness for the claimants
AT - Andrew Thacker, NHS trust Head of HR
TA – Tracy Atkinson, NHS trust HR.
AM – Andrew Moore, NHS Head of Workforce Experience
JB – Jillian Bailey, NHS Workforce Experience Manager
AT – Anna Telfer, NHS Deputy Director of Nursing
SW – Sandra Watson, Matron for General and Elective Surgery
JR – Jodie Robinson, manager of Rose

TT

We expect the hearing to resume at 2pm with Rose Henderson (RH) being cross-examined by the claimants' barrister Niazi Fetto KC (NF)

have you got both sexes though?

Very topical fruit trees 🤣🤣

I ahve some maunuka seedlings coming along nicely in Kent.

@RobinEllacotStrike I have 3. I'm hoping at least one will be male and one female.

Why not.

I have no issue with men wearing dresses, skirts, make-up, jewellery etc. Part of the wider issue is that GI is based on regressive sex based stereotypes. I rejected them decades ago and couldn’t care less about what people chose to wear.

The issue is RH is a man using a female SSS. By all means critique what RH is saying under cross examination, the tone etc. is all appropriate to show his male entitlement to use female SSS.

I bet RH is feeling even more smug, knowing that the lawyers have spent two hours arguing over what questions can be put to him. If NF has been limited, at least the judge knows what questions he wanted to ask.

Rose could win awards for the the "loveliest man the world has ever known" and "the most gorgous soft sweet transwoman the world has ever seen", and STILL he should not be allowed into the womens changing rooms,and STILL all NHS staff deserve to have their rights for single sex changing rooms upheld.

Yes! I have a copy of a school photo of DB around that age and that’s the exact pose.

Regarding the smugness, I'm not watching, but my experience of the transwomen working in my org is that they have been told they are a special caste, and they have people fawning over them and constantly telling them how terribly oppressed they are. So they think they are untouchable and that their rights should be elevated above everyone else's. I think this is where the smugness arises from.

No-one else is allowed to view what you're watching. It's set out clearly in the judge's direction. Please don't do this.

Good point. Also, Rose is “merely” a witness here whereas DrU is a respondent which must make anyone be more defensive when giving evidence. Rose doesn’t have anything to lose in comparison.

.

From the little that we have seen of Rose, I would think it is male entitlement and a troubled upbringing that have brought him to this point.

With Upton I think he is bona fide narcissist, very manipulative. and quite intelligent.

I wouldn't say the same for Rose, it was not a good idea to walk about mad dogging the nurses after he found out who had complained about him.

I will ask for my post to be removed.
Thank you for pointing this out.

The problems with using stats on TW, or male violence in general, is that it allows for the lip-wobbly 'but you surely aren't suggesting that I, Rose/Beth/whatevs, would dream of harming a women! How could you!' defence.

The point is that being TW does not make Rose less of a potential danger to women, and it's the potential as much as the proven actual danger that justifies single sex spaces.
Some males - trans or not - are lovely chaps who would never dream of harming a woman, but some aren't, so the broad-brush approach to keeping all males out of women's spaces is based on general potentiality, not individual non-violence.

Men used to go along with that without difficulty - they didn't used to think that being told to keep out of the women's toilet was an accusation that they were all violent and a threat to women, so they went along with the broad-brush separation of the sexes in certain circumstances, without taking it as a personal affront.

Assuming a 2pm restart.

A REMINDER TO LIVE WATCHERS NOT TO COMMENT ON ANYTHING YOU SEE/HEAR UNTIL THE BREAK PLEASE. That includes appearance and manner of the witness.

Please don’t make me break out the bigly font again.

Indeed "good men stay out so bad men stand out"

& I hope Jo will also be able to make the point

"its not because he is TRANS (he isn't allowed into womens spaces) but because he is MALE"

Yes. Not the brightest.

He gave himself away when he said he'd only been up and down the ward once or twice unsuccessfully looking for trolleys.

Because that's really the sort of thing one remembers from countless busy shifts.

I wonder how many people in general, and especially women in a state of undress, have had to walk on eggshells over the past few years for this one man to still not apparently have a clue that some women may be distressed at him being in women's single sex spaces?

I’m in but have no picture or sound.

Does anyone else have a picture?
if so, I’ll rejoin.

Edit - I have both now.

I have a 2pm meeting but will try log in after. Hope the evidence isn’t cut short as I’d like to see this witness in action to get a feel for what he’s like. Especially compared to earlier claimant witnesses.

I've just realised that Jo Phoenix will be entitled to watch this. I so hope she does.

TT

[We resume]