"Darlington Nurses" vs County Durham and Darlington NHS Trust Tribunal Thread 6

[ThreeWordHarpy]

Thread 1, 7-Oct to 23-Oct; pre-hearing discussion, KD (day 1 of evidence) and BH (day 2).
Thread 2, 23-Oct to 28-Oct; BH (day 2), CH, JP, MG (day 3&4), TH, SS, ST, LL (day 4), JS, AT (day 5)
Thread 3, 28-Oct to 29-Oct; AT (day 5&6), TA (day 6&7)
Thread 4, 29-Oct to 31-Oct; TA, AM (day 7) JB (day 8)
Thread 5, 31-Oct to 04-Nov; JB (day 8), SW, CG, JR (day 9)

Five nurses working at Darlington Memorial Hospital have filed a legal case suing their employer, an NHS trust, for sexual harassment and sex discrimination. The nurses object to sharing the women’s changing facilities with a male colleague, Rose, who identifies as female. The hearing started on October 20th, with evidence starting on October 22nd and is scheduled to last 3 weeks. To view the hearing online requests for access had to be made by October 17th. The hearing is being live tweeted by Tribunal Tweets who have background to this case on their substack. An alternative to X is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

The Judge made clear at the start of the public hearing on Day 1 that only TT or press have permission to tweet. If online observers see/hear something in the court that isn’t reported by TT, we don’t mention it until the next time there’s a break. This is a very cautious approach to avoid any accusations of “live reporting” on MN. Commentary on the content of TT tweets is fine as soon as they’re posted on X.

Key people:
C/Ns - Claimants, the Darlington nurses
R/T/Trust - Respondent, County Durham and Darlington NHS Foundation Trust
J/EJ – Judge/Employment Judge Seamus Sweeney
NF - Niazi Fetto KC, barrister for claimants
SC - Simon Cheetham, KC, barrister for respondents
RH - Rose Henderson, trans identifying nurse
CG – Clare Gregory, NHS ward manager
SW - Sue Williams, NHS Trust HR
KD – Karen Danson, first claimant to give evidence.
BH – Bethany Hutchison, claimant
AH – Alistair Hutchison, husband of Bethany
CH – Carly Hoy, claimant
JP – Jane Peveller, claimant
MG – Mary Anne (aka Annice) Grundy, claimant
TH – Tracy Hooper, claimant
SS – Siobhan Sinclair, witness for the claimants, retired from Trust
ST – Sharron Trevarrow, witness for the claimants, retired from Trust, former housekeeper and wellbeing officer
LL – Lisa Lockey, claimant
JP – Professor Jo Phoenix, expert witness
JS – Jane Shields, witness for the claimants
AT - Andrew Thacker, NHS trust Head of HR
TA – Tracy Atkinson, NHS trust HR.
AM – Andrew Moore, NHS Head of Workforce Experience
JB – Jillian Bailey, NHS Workforce Experience Manager
AT – Anna Telfer, NHS Deputy Director of Nursing
SW – Sandra Watson, Matron for General and Elective Surgery
JR – Jodie Robinson, manager of Rose

A witness must be able to give their best evidence, which they cannot do if the court does not help put them at their ease.

Judges are not fools and are used to hearing evidence from all sorts of witnesses.

It's all good.

I wish 😄 The last time I was in one was the screened off female section for gynae patients eg hysterectomies. We were all nervous enough. No relatives or friends allowed in for a bit of support. Just the long wait in our gowns, in chairs …

The appearance (in both senses) of Rose would not have helped patient welfare. Quite the opposite. I’d have wondered what sort of hospital they were running.

My own observations are that aside from the careful feminine mannerisms (sitting with hands clasped, pushing of hair back from face), Rose actually seems like a fairly open and honest male witness. Rose isn't being smarmy or trying to outwit NF (cf Dr Upton) and is talking in a calm, friendly voice. Just utterly clueless as to what the other users of the changing room might feel - I notice Rose didn't seem to understand NF's question as to whether Rose had put themselves in the shoes of the women to understand why they may feel uncomfortable. Said they'd thought about why the women may have concerns but couldn't come up with anything.

So, my conclusion based on the short amount of evidence so far, Rose either knows damn well why women don't want to undress in front of them and feigning ignorance or has a case of Main Character Syndrome where everything revolves around Rose and everyone else is an NPC.

I wondered if that had anything to do with remote viewers not being given a glimpse of the people in the room's reactions to Rose/Rose's testimony. I always have a quick nosy when the camera pans away to see how the 'audience' are reacting/doing.

I realise I only need one word to describe him.

Fake.

It applies to his demeanour, his appearance and, judging from the blinky, drinky tells, parts of his evidence.

I wouldn't trust him an inch.

Did it not cross anyone in HRs mind that this man might be a pervert?

I mean, come on now.

I know I may get deleted but I'm sick of pandering to this utter nonsense.

a FEIJOA in the UK?

I saw feijoas in Sainsburys in the 90's for £1 each - never seen them here again.

From reading press reports, including some relating to his family 18 years ago, it seems that Rose had at least an unusual family background that I feel very sad for. I also think he went through higher education at the worst time possible for being supported in terrible ideas around 'transness'.

At the same time, he's a large adult man now, who is smugly defending behaviour that has caused enormous distress to women, and I think it is important to describe his physical presentation, alongside his demeanour, because otherwise it keeps the wider audience from 'seeing' the bigger picture.

Something we haven't talked much about is his family background and reports that his father is currently in prison for non-recent sex offences. But because his father was a Community Theatre Director who put himself and his family details in the press many times in the past, it is possible to triangulate the various reports to verify the information. And I can't hep but see obvious parallels between the RH in front of us in court, and the weird upbringing with a dad and uncle who played Pantomine Dames throughout his childhood, and the low-key 'pantomine' version of a woman being played in court.

It's very sad that RH likely grew up with very weird ideas about that it means to be a man or a woman, but he can't impose himself on other people and expect that the watching world won't comment.

I thought it was a black bean used in a Brazilian feijoada, and I was wondering what the link to Kiwis was!
Every day a school day here, eh?

@RobinEllacotStrike DH gets them in Borough Market. I also have 3 feijoa bushes in my front garden. They are only 3 years old but I have hopes of a harvest one day. I had a grand total of 3 flowers on one this year. Having said that, they are notoriously sulky if not in the EXACT correct spot

I’m glad Jo Phoenix will be there to give stats on TW offence levels so that the court can understand that women’s fear of the male body, whether in a dress or scrubs, is not born out of bigotry.

😂

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1985637762037338527.html

Yes, and I just remembered why that answer creeped me out so much.

I watched a program about how investigators decide whether a suspect is lying, and one of the tells was that they don't answer questions directly. So, for example, instead of answering "Did you kill your wife?" with "No," a liar might say "I would have to reason to. I love her."

What's super creepy is I'm fairly sure I saw footage of an interview where the suspect, who was eventually found guilty, actually said those words - "I would have no reason to."

Bah I have to get back to it, so I shall have to catch up later.

I hope Ade has some conversations with his mates that go along the lines of
"been up to anything interesting at work lately Ade?"
"Yeah, I was security for some women going to court. This bloke had been going in their changing rooms and the managers at the hospital they work at said it was fine, because the bloke says he's a woman now. But the nurses aren't happy so they are asking the Judge to tell their bosses not to let that man in their changing room any more."
"What????"
And that person tells another down the gym, who tells their OH and word gets spread to people who may even weren't aware of this madness.

they are notoriously sulky if not in the EXACT correct spot

Oh my god! I'm a feijoa bush!

Absolutely getting the same vibes. The entitlement is oozing out of him. Surely the tribunal can't help but pick up that this is no blushing wallflower.

And so are Upton and Henderson.

This is just an errant thought, but I wonder if RH's demeanour is also coming across as less smug so far compared to DrU's battle of wills with Naomi Cunningham at the time because here it's a man doing the cross x. (not observing, just reading TT)

I wonder what the HR staff that have been on the stand would think if Ade worked at the hospital and claimed to be a woman called Anne?

I’d like an Ade. Please 😁