"Darlington Nurses" vs County Durham and Darlington NHS Trust Tribunal Thread 5

[ThreeWordHarpy]

Thread 1, 7-Oct to 23-Oct; pre-hearing discussion, KD (day 1 of evidence) and BH (day 2).
Thread 2, 23-Oct to 28-Oct; BH (day 2), CH, JP, MG (day 3&4), TH, SS, ST, LL (day 4), JS, AT (day 5)
Thread 3, 28-Oct to 29-Oct, AT (day 5&6), TA (day 6&7)
Thread 4, 29-Oct to 31-Oct, TA, AM (day 7) JB (day 8)

Five nurses working at Darlington Memorial Hospital have filed a legal case suing their employer, an NHS trust, for sexual harassment and sex discrimination. The nurses object to sharing the women’s changing facilities with a male colleague, Rose, who identifies as female. The hearing started on October 20th, with evidence starting on October 22nd and is scheduled to last 3 weeks. To view the hearing online requests for access had to be made by October 17th. The hearing is being live tweeted by Tribunal Tweets who have background to this case on their substack. An alternative to X is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

The Judge made clear at the start of the public hearing on Day 1 that only TT or press have permission to tweet. If online observers see/hear something in the court that isn’t reported by TT, we don’t mention it until the next time there’s a break. This is a very cautious approach to avoid any accusations of “live reporting” on MN. Commentary on the content of TT tweets is fine as soon as they’re posted on X.

Key people:
C/Ns - Claimants, the Darlington nurses
R/T/Trust - Respondent, County Durham and Darlington NHS Foundation Trust
J/EJ – Judge/Employment Judge Seamus Sweeney
NF - Niazi Fetto KC, barrister for claimants
SC - Simon Cheetham, KC, barrister for respondents
RH - Rose Henderson, trans identifying nurse
CG – Clare Gregory, ward manager
SW - Sue Williams, NHS Trust HR
KD – Karen Danson, first claimant to give evidence.
BH – Bethany Hutchison, claimant
AH – Alistair Hutchison, husband of Bethany
CH – Carly Hoy, claimant
JP – Jane Peveller, claimant
MG – Mary Anne (aka Annice) Grundy, claimant
TH – Tracy Hooper, claimant
SS – Siobhan Sinclair, witness for the claimants, retired from Trust
ST – Sharron Trevarrow, witness for the claimants, retired from Trust, former housekeeper and wellbeing officer
LL – Lisa Lockey, claimant
JP – Professor Jo Phoenix, expert witness
JS – Jane Shields, witness for the claimants
AT - Andrew Thacker, NHS trust Head of HR
TA – Tracy Atkinson, NHS trust HR.
AM – Andrew Moore, NHS Head of Workforce Experience
JB – Jillian Bailey, NHS Workforce Experience Manager

In one of the previous threads someone posted photos of Rosalie Henderson getting married to a Mrs Henderson and someone rightly pointed out how very patriarchal of her to take his name. I am sure it’s pretty searchable. He was in a black dress, she in white.

Me too.

It's not about how pretty they are, it's the fact that they are men. Even the very pretty, feminine and medicated men are still men.

If you need nut-free then it doesn't matter how nicely your peanut has been hidden away inside chocolate and toffee, it still means you can't eat it.

Wholeheartedly agree, but whether we like it or not, the optics provide a very helpful nudge to people who up until now might have been happy to “go along to get along” with TWAW. See also Isla Bryson in his pink leggings.

I think the “no effort to appear female” point is that it undermines the suggestion that the TW is suffering and desperate to be seen as a woman. It looks rather more like a man who enjoys seeing women’s discomfort/women in an undressed state.

Agreed. It also prevents the Trust from hiding behind the fig leaf excuse of 'he tries so hard to blend in'.

I think though - for many members of the public who don't follow the debate - the photo of RH is a visible "Pete the Plumber" moment.

There are many people out there who think that a transitioned TW means they have had surgery and hormones and don't understand self-identification.

Be kind, everyone. Unless they don't agree with you, when it's 'seek, locate, destroy.'

TT

Apologies for the confusion in the previous thread due to the temporary absence of sound. The witness was Claire Gregory (CG) but has also been annotated as SG in error at times.

J This is Jody Robinson (JR) next [JR swears on Bible]
SC [confirms witness statement contents] and asks JR to speak up
NF Your a Band 6 J
R I'm a Band 7
NF We've heard re op managers
JR I'm a clinical mger
NF In para 5 of your WS, [reads re training on equality and H&S ta work

Do i detect a stroppy tone from the latest twitness?

TT

NF Did u consider there might be a H&S issue related to RH
JR No
NF U were RHs manager throughout
Yes
NF U used the CR a bit
JR Yes I changed into scrubs like e'one else
NF U say used 4-5 times a week. U mean shifts
Yes, twice each shift

They need those hole reinforcements stickers for that plan of the CR

I'm only following TT but it's reading as stroppy already!

I think the photos and description are useful because they depict a more typical image than, eg the 'Dolls' on the cover of Glamour magazine. It's not that 'pretty' Tims are any more valid or welcome in the changing room, but that a large % of the general public doesn't have a realistic idea of the scale or nature of the problem, and is accepting, without evidence, that Tims are a small number of people who have had a 'sex change' and are quietly blending in. The shock-value of the photos is a help in opening the conversation to a wider audience.

Was about to say the same!

Yep!

TT

NF U have some experience of using CR at same time as Rose
JR Yes [asked to look at plan and points] In front of the bench
NF Your WS is on p319. Yr familiar w the TITWPP?
Yes. Rose isnt the 1st person in transition in our dept
NF Did u follow this policy with Rose
JR What do u mean

JR She came thru the uni we were aware before she started w us so I didnt follow it myself
NF Rose qualifies in 2022
JR Yes, cld have been either of Jan 23 or Sept 22 but I dont know which
NF In para 18, [reads re never seeing Rose parading around] Where is that parading around from

I'm afraid I have to leave it there. The dogs will wait no longer!

The photo is useful, it’s hard to see why rose would have been uncomfortable in the men’s changing room. I doubt any of the men in there would have known rose was a ‘woman’

I'd say brisk rather than stroppy, so far. Brisk and quite emphatic with responses.

Jody is another of the 3 theatre managers who featured tangentially in the 2022 tribunal. Working on same level as Tracy Atkinson, but not a big player in the previous tribunal.

Very clipped in approach, short answers and very efficient. Not at present open to expanding or waffling.

Long pauses between her and NF.

Interested to see how it goes.

Yeh, the quick fire, comedic drag act with implants that served us in Kenji yesterday should illustrate matters for many customers.

I can C&P TT for a short while

JR From newspapers I think. It wasnt said in theatres
NF The 26 raised a CX in 2024 that u describe as a petition
JR I've never seen it
NF In 2023 u say y'd heard there was an issue re RH using the CR by the pre-assessment team. Who was this
JR Can only recall Ali Quinn

JR I only recall her name as she changed it. It was Ali Quinn. Alexa raised it w Ali. I don't know her second name
NF How did u respond
JR It was just a brief convo
NF Did u work w Jane Shields? And knew sh'ed raised it
JR Wasnt aware she had

Yeah, guess you're right. Suppose I've defaulted to the purity of the argument as I'm familiar with the debate. Seeing Rose as he is will peak more people. Still annoying though