"Darlington Nurses" vs County Durham and Darlington NHS Trust Tribunal Thread 3

[AuthorisedCat]

Link to Thread 1, 7-Oct to 23-Oct; pre-hearing discussion, evidence from KD (Day 1) and BH (Day 2).

Link to Thread 2
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5432103-darlington-nurses-vs-county-durham-and-darlington-nhs-trust-tribunal-thread-2

Five nurses working at Darlington Memorial Hospital have filed a legal case suing their employer, an NHS trust, for sexual harassment and sex discrimination. The nurses object to sharing the women’s changing facilities with a male colleague, Rose, who identifies as female. The NHS trust’s HR department dismissed the nurses’ concerns, stating they should “broaden their mindset” and “be educated”. More details can be found at Sex Matters and at Christian Concern who are supporting the nurses via the CLC.
The hearing started on October 20th, with evidence starting on October 22nd and is scheduled to last 3 weeks. To view the hearing online, requests for access had to be made by October 17th. The hearing is being live tweeted by Tribunal Tweets who have background to this case on their substack. An alternative to X is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets
The Judge made clear at the start of the public hearing on Day 1 that only TT or press have permission to tweet. If online observers see/hear something in the court that isn’t reported by TT, we don’t mention it until the next time there’s a break. This is a very cautious approach to avoid any accusations of “live reporting” on MN. Commentary on the content of TT tweets is fine as soon as they’re posted on X.
Key people:
C/Ns - Claimants, the Darlington nurses
R/T/Trust - Respondent, County Durham and Darlington NHS Foundation Trust
J/EJ – Judge/Employment Judge
NF - Niazi Fetto KC, barrister for claimants
SC - Simon Cheetham, KC, barrister for respondents
RH - Rose Henderson, trans identifying nurse
CG – Clare Gregory, ward manager
KD – Karen Danson, first claimant to give evidence.
BH – Bethany Hutchison, second claimant to give evidence
AH – Alistair Hutchison, husband of Bethany
Other abbreviations:
WFTCHTJ – Waiting For The Conference Host To Join
ET - Employment Tribunal
DMH/H – Hospital, Darlington Memorial Hospital
CR/CF - changing room or facilities
IX - internal investigation
XX – cross examination

"I've not spoken to Miss D since"
"it wasn't something I'd asked her to look at"
"it didn't really cross my mind at the time"
"that was never my intention in this"
"I didn't commission a risk assessment"
"That's RCN's interpretation of the regulations" (subject to interpretation?)
"the meeting didn't happen because the meanie Cs went to the media" (darvo)
"No I was not involved in that"
"I wasn't involved in the discussions"
"I was on leave"
"I wasn't involved in the meeting" (times two)
"I was completely confused"
"I daresay I would have read it" (more distancing himself)
"there was no expectation that I would do anything" (no shit)
"well yes that is what the bullet point suggests" (more distancing)
"but the Trust had a policy..." (distancing)
"I wasn't involved, I wasn't involved" (ad infinitum)

AT - yes and nationally a framework for policies in general.
NF - were you aware of EHRC guidance?
AT - yes and we took action in withdrawing our guidance.
NF - was EHRC taken into account?
AT - yes re TITWP policy.
J - Mr Cheetham?

SC - clearing up - letters re involvement in press were sent please read. Ms Bradbury’s name is there. And Ms Gregory is spokesperson - p 562 bundle 1. When you’re referring to comms with Ms G is that what you have in mind?
AT - yes.

J - something to be cleared up Mr C. Break for lunch now , resume at 2pm .

Sorry Sideways, those are my words not AT's, undab that dab!😁

I was on leave.

Phew, for a moment there it seemed as though he might have to answer a question by indicating that he had

understood there was a situation
had spoken to the relevant parties
had checked the Trusts existing policies against current legislation
had used his authority and seniority to propose an agreed solution
had instigated implementation of the solution

but luckily it turned out that he had fortuitously booked two weeks ( golfing, pottery painting,bread making,walking the Camino?) so was able to invoke the well worn joker ON LEAVE card * *( so ner ner ner to you Mr fancy pants Barrister) .

You're involved in a mess that's gained attention in the national press: query, 'should we possibly minute meetings do you think?'

I swear, local village hall playgroup managers run at a level of professionalism streets above this.

I've jumped over to see how Glinner's trial is going and the latest Nick Wallis tweet quotes Julie Bindel saying "If I had a mastermind subject it would be male violence, harassment and intimidation and I know it when I see it", so that's my lunch hour gone reading that thread!

That article also doesn't make clear that in this instance it's not just 'transgenders' that the female staff object to but one particular male transexual. AFAIK there are no other "trans" identifying males using female facilities in the Trust other than "Rose".

BTW Did I see that "Rose's" real name is Tyler? Has he adopted "Rose" as an homage to Billie Piper's character in Dr Who?

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1983498253761925129.html

The problem was that everyone knew that this was the poisoned chalice 🏆

Nobody wanted to go near it

Nobody wanted to touch it

People even retired to get away from it

.... even HR gave it a wide berth to distance themselves and evade any actual involvement.

You forgot ' a big boy did it and retired'.

I like tit whoop as well. It brings to mind a joyful transitioner nervously fixing tasselled pasties on their new breasts and watching a you tube video to learn how to twirl them in opposite directions like a Sunday lunchtime stripper in a seedy Soho pub.

At least Isla Bumba could say "you wouldn't know this policy, it came from a different trust."

🤣🤣 they really are that childish, aren't they.

Bumba doesn't look half as stupid now. Still stupid, re not knowing her own sex, but she did at least Google a policy and plagiarise it.

I agree with this. The Board had a policy (TW in F CR in this case) and it was his job to “make it happen” and square all circles against all sense and evidence. Including sealing the Board/Trust off from stuff that would cause trouble. The lack of action/curiosity is not a mistake.

Like this?

What I find astounding is that 26 women took the time to raise a complaint. 26 of them. And even after they did that, the Director of HR didn't think it an important enough issue, to make sure he minuted and documented every fucking conversation he had about it after that. And then it kicked off in the press, and he still didn't document his discussions or decisions. Seriously, what on earth was he thinking? It's so dismissive of their concerns, it just makes him look like he didn't care a jot about their actual complaint, as much as the fact they were making it, and making a hell of a lot of noise about it.

Oh and don't get me started on the fact that the investigation was set up to fail from the start. The question should have been 'is it the case that a male sexed person is using the female only changing rooms, and if so, what should we do about this?'
The answer should have been 'yes, it's within trust policy to let him, so to do something about it we would need to review the policy.' And then they should have reviewed the policy!
That took me all of five minutes to work out, what the fuck took a year?

Oh man! Where is my eye bleach?

🤮

So many men are like that.

So we have the women (of Fife), who appear to be largely TWAW, and the men (of Leonardo and Darlington) who basically DGAF.

Perfect. Just perfect.

ETA: it all adds up to misogyny writ large though, doesn’t it?

'Rosalie Willow' is the full name he has adopted. I dare say the Rose/Tyler nod to Dr Who is not lost on him.

Completely irrelevant but googling the name Rosalie Henderson produces an awful lot of results for the poor woman of the same name who was killed in the notorious Acid Bath Murders in the 1940s.

I think it is because women's needs are simply not considered. Over the past few years of it has pretty much been underlined just how unimportant we are to the mens.

Did you google that picture, Cake?? An interesting addition to your search history 😂

He is the Trust's HR Director. There isn't anyone more senior to represent HR.

It was in the .gif drawer @MarieDeGournay under 'tassel'. I should be surprised but after 'asparagus' <shudder> I'm not.

NHS boss said transgender colleague who sparked protests after using female changing room was 'no different to a large woman' | Daily Mail Online