"Darlington Nurses" vs County Durham and Darlington NHS Trust Tribunal Thread 2

[ThreeWordHarpy]

Link to Thread 1, 7-Oct to 23-Oct; pre-hearing discussion, evidence from KD (Day 1) and BH (Day 2).

Five nurses working at Darlington Memorial Hospital have filed a legal case suing their employer, an NHS trust, for sexual harassment and sex discrimination. The nurses object to sharing the women’s changing facilities with a male colleague, Rose, who identifies as female. The NHS trust’s HR department dismissed the nurses’ concerns, stating they should “broaden their mindset” and “be educated”. More details can be found at Sex Matters and at Christian Concern who are supporting the nurses via the CLC.

The hearing started on October 20th, with evidence starting on October 22nd and is scheduled to last 3 weeks. To view the hearing online, requests for access had to be made by October 17th. The hearing is being live tweeted by Tribunal Tweets who have background to this case on their substack. An alternative to X is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

The Judge made clear at the start of the public hearing on Day 1 that only TT or press have permission to tweet. If online observers see/hear something in the court that isn’t reported by TT, we don’t mention it until the next time there’s a break. This is a very cautious approach to avoid any accusations of “live reporting” on MN. Commentary on the content of TT tweets is fine as soon as they’re posted on X.

Key people:
C/Ns - Claimants, the Darlington nurses
R/T/Trust - Respondent, County Durham and Darlington NHS Foundation Trust
J/EJ – Judge/Employment Judge
NF - Niazi Fetto KC, barrister for claimants
SC - Simon Cheetham, KC, barrister for respondents
RH - Rose Henderson, trans identifying nurse
CG – Clare Gregory, ward manager
KD – Karen Danson, first claimant to give evidence.
BH – Bethany Hutchison, second claimant to give evidence
AH – Alistair Hutchison, husband of Bethany

Other abbreviations:
WFTCHTJ – Waiting For The Conference Host To Join
ET - Employment Tribunal
DMH/H – Hospital, Darlington Memorial Hospital
CR/CF - changing room or facilities
IX - internal investigation
XX – cross examination

TT

SC suggest that what you said - walking up and down staring, his usually pattern. Suggest you made it up
CH - no. I am very anxious and self-conc person. Wouldn't put myself through this if I was lying
SC such is your concern that anything RH said or did

you saw as aimed at you? Do you agrree
CH what do you mean?
SC you see it as threatening towards you
cH - yes is scary it's fear
SC not suggesting you are lying, but that it doesn't make it possible that RH is walking up and down for a good reason and has a good reason..

He had his phone out in a room where women were getting changed? Has anyone requested it to make a forensic examination of his camera use?

I think we're missing the point here, he's trying to get to the point that RH behaviour was normal and acceptable, and she's perceiving it through a lens as threatening because of her own prejudices. And that she's not really paying attention anyway. But the point is that RH shouldn't have been there in the first place!

TT

.. to be on phone
SC no there is no reason to be on the phone if not talking to someone...once you are aware of RH there you are on your phone?
CH - once I was there with RH I was on the phone to my mum or sister due to anxiety.
SC not suggesting that is wrong, but you might

..not notice...[missed]
CH - no
SC - Bundle 1. p117.
J - asks how CH is doing
CH - fine J - break in 10 mins
SC will finish this section

At times like this I think it's a crying shame that a recording of the video stream of the hearing cannot be made available to the public.

This is why I say men just don't get it. The instant calculations women make when a man is present, especially in an enclosed space.

It was frankly offensive. And asked of someone who has made credible accusations that she felt threatened with sexual harassment. Men with a high ability to impersonate women are not less male. They are not less dangerous. If anything a highly motivated desires to invade women's spaces makes them on average and in general more of a threat than just a man off the street. Again that doesn't apply necessarily to all TW but there is no necessary, positive correlation between 'passing' and threat. I'm sure I'm a bit triggered, so there are probably other, less damning perspectives, but more I think about it, the angrier i makes me.

TT

SC - appreciate you haven't seen before, it lists the allegations of harassment re RH. Which are you making personally? Not trying to catch you out. Using changing room. Next time is spending longer time in CR wearing boxer shorts.

TT

SC - next one walking around, understand you are making this one. [lists other examples of harassment in document
CH not claiming]
SC - short break now if convenient?
J - 10 minutes? Break

The problem is that none of these things are normal and acceptable if you are a man in the women's changing room.

Exactly!!!!

I am struggling too. Sometimes I just mute and read the TT

I'm not free now to c&p TT for the rest of the day, so hope someone can pick up after the break

The implication is that as presentation tends to fully passing then women's concerns should tend to zero.

CH was absolutely right when she said: he shouldn’t be there at all.

How convenient for Mr C to say: let’s put that aside for now.

Let’s not, actually.

Are you a mathematician or a scientist, perhaps, @nauticant ?

(I appreciate the structure of your last comment)

That's my training, well spotted.

Mine also.

All settled in to watch and fuck me the BIGGEST spider just crawled across my desk. Thank goodness observers are without sound and webcam!

‘But you didn’t know you were deceived so it is ok.’

But it's worse than that. You might know it's a man but since he passes well you shouldn't be concerned. For some reason.

‘But you didn’t know you were deceived so it is ok.’

That’s a bit Gisele Pelicot isn’t it? She was so heavily drugged she didn’t realise she’d been deceived. She ‘just’ had physical and mental issues resulting from her assaults.

He’s just getting ready for his favourite day of the year next week. 🎃 🕷️

God love her. She thought she had dementia and her fucking husband went to the doctor with her and listened to this conversation.

She was unconscious and can't remember, so why's it such a big deal?

Rose just needed to change! And Rose was putting scrubs in the correct bin and everything! Why are you being so mean?