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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Muslim charity run

1000 replies

Thomasina79 · 12/10/2025 08:10

Has banned women and girls over the age of 12 from participating. Thoughts?

OP posts:
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Tiatha · 12/10/2025 10:08

@ProfoundlyPeculiarAndWeird I'm curious as to why religiously observant men cannot run with women? They don't need to touch them or see them in skimpy clothing. What's the barrier?

I am a person of faith and admire many things about Islam. But I think when a person's religious observance conflicts with the rights of people in a protected class to participate in something like this, it is up to the person with the restrictive religious observances to remove themselves if they consider the two incompatible.

RedToothBrush · 12/10/2025 10:08

AgentPidge · 12/10/2025 10:03

Well if you know the answer, why not just tell us? I'd like to know too.

Try Google.

HTH.

Bigpinksweater · 12/10/2025 10:08

He’s the last person I would complain to about this. Who is the MP? I suppose most of us won’t be constituents though - what about the Minister for Equalities/women?

TeaBiscuitsNaptime · 12/10/2025 10:08

Tiatha · 12/10/2025 09:58

I try to be open-minded etc but that's just vile. All their "open to everyone" guff and then women aren't allowed but they can come to cheer the men on? Thanks a lot bro.

Edited

Ya and in many cases women wouldn't be able to choose whether to cheer them on or not. It doesn't bare thinking about

ParmaVioletTea · 12/10/2025 10:09

Absolutely disgraceful.

Could a Muslim explain this to me, because I’m having difficulty seeing this as anything other than woman-hating extremist Islamism.

ThatCyanCat · 12/10/2025 10:09

It's also worth adding that most Mail readers are women.

Sickleg · 12/10/2025 10:09

TeaBiscuitsNaptime · 12/10/2025 09:59

It is shocking really in this day and age. It's in the UK too. It is their race though 🤔

they can’t just make up the rules because it’s their race. They live in UK & must abide by rules of the land . Disgraceful.

roseyposey · 12/10/2025 10:10

5MinuteArgument · 12/10/2025 09:49

Demographic trends and sectarian politics means there's going to be a lot more of this coming down the line.

And the government's working on a definition of 'Islamophobia' so discussing it won't be possible.

But, hey, enrichment and all that.

However a British judge recently ruled that burning the Koran was not illegal because of UK freedom of speech laws.

Bigpinksweater · 12/10/2025 10:10

Tiatha · 12/10/2025 10:08

@ProfoundlyPeculiarAndWeird I'm curious as to why religiously observant men cannot run with women? They don't need to touch them or see them in skimpy clothing. What's the barrier?

I am a person of faith and admire many things about Islam. But I think when a person's religious observance conflicts with the rights of people in a protected class to participate in something like this, it is up to the person with the restrictive religious observances to remove themselves if they consider the two incompatible.

Exactly. Only yesterday a Muslim friend on FB was posting a photo of her new running gear which was very very covering. I disagree with the notion that it’s up to us to cover ourselves from head to toe due to men who can’t control their sexual urges, but she’s entitled to wear it on an individual level. So what’s the barrier?

Lobas · 12/10/2025 10:10

ParmaVioletTea · 12/10/2025 10:09

Absolutely disgraceful.

Could a Muslim explain this to me, because I’m having difficulty seeing this as anything other than woman-hating extremist Islamism.

I’m sure a big part of is it that organisers wouldn’t have wanted women turning up in leggings or shorts. Have you seen the “modest” outfits that are apparently acceptable for Muslim women to wear whilst exercising. Horrendous.

5MinuteArgument · 12/10/2025 10:11

Bigpinksweater · 12/10/2025 09:50

If their definition of Islamophobia goes further than for any other religion, then we really need to mobilise and I will be joining all protests.

There's an all party working group looking at a definition of Islamophobia. They want to define it as a form of racism, in which case it will go further than the protection given to other religions.

It's being opposed by the National Secular Society, Free Speech Union etc. It was Angela Raynor's pet project, so hopefully now that she's out of the picture, it might be rowed back.

Greenwitchart · 12/10/2025 10:11

Disgraceful.

It does not fit in with our equality laws and values.

Events that so obviously discriminates like this one should not be allowed to go ahead.

BundleBoogie · 12/10/2025 10:11

ThatSpryShaker · 12/10/2025 08:41

Show me them calling it out.

I think assuming that Muslim women are so oppressed that they never speak up for themselves is kind of racist. Racist because that assumption comes from their cultural background rather than adherence to the religion itself.

Islam is a religion that is easily and frequently used to subjugate women. It is hard to argue that all Muslim women have freedom of speech and expression when we have women in Afghanistan completely silenced. How much of what Muslim women do in certain religious practices that are detrimental to them is down to conditioning and family coercion?

If we don’t protect all people, particularly women, in this country from practices like underage marriage, first cousin marriage, requiring women to hide themselves completely, etc with application of the law, we can see how the law and our British values can be ignored in an area with growing Muslim control.

ThatCyanCat · 12/10/2025 10:12

5MinuteArgument · 12/10/2025 10:11

There's an all party working group looking at a definition of Islamophobia. They want to define it as a form of racism, in which case it will go further than the protection given to other religions.

It's being opposed by the National Secular Society, Free Speech Union etc. It was Angela Raynor's pet project, so hopefully now that she's out of the picture, it might be rowed back.

Islam is a race? I thought it was a religion.

roseyposey · 12/10/2025 10:14

Sickleg · 12/10/2025 10:01

Who’s up for CRASHING this race? Walk or run it. I don’t live nearby or I would.

How could they stop you anyway?

You could say you identify as a Muslim male.

I think that might get Tower Hamlets in a tizzy.

5MinuteArgument · 12/10/2025 10:15

roseyposey · 12/10/2025 10:10

However a British judge recently ruled that burning the Koran was not illegal because of UK freedom of speech laws.

The guy was let off because the Free Speech Union campaigned vigorously on his behalf. He shouldn't have been arrested I the first place.

KarminaBurana · 12/10/2025 10:17

roseyposey · 12/10/2025 10:14

How could they stop you anyway?

You could say you identify as a Muslim male.

I think that might get Tower Hamlets in a tizzy.

😂😂😂
Brilliant!

5MinuteArgument · 12/10/2025 10:17

ThatCyanCat · 12/10/2025 10:12

Islam is a race? I thought it was a religion.

Exactly.

Personperson · 12/10/2025 10:17

It's disgusting.

I am against anything that promotes misogyny. And harmful attitudes towards women.

Brainworm · 12/10/2025 10:17

@ProfoundlyPeculiarAndWeird, when you state ’I want to live in a society in which religious people with values different from mine can live in accordance with their beliefs, even if they are distasteful to me’, I presume you distinguish between what you find distasteful, and what is unlawful?

Where do you draw the line? I presume you aren’t in favour of those wanting to practice forced marriage or FGM being able to live their life in accordance with their religious beliefs. There are many who believe there are religious laws underpinning these practices and others who state this is not the case.

I think it is entirely legitimate for people to call out any religious group or cultural community who exclude or even discourage any vulnerable or oppressed group from participating in any activities known to improve quality of life. Failing to do so is regressive. I am amazed at how many people think it is progressive to accept oppressive behaviour from those classified as oppressed.

It is damaging and dangerous, and becoming more and more commonplace, to label those who are seeking a set of ‘human’ values and norms to be signed up to by all citizens of the UK, as bigots and far right. Many like me, will never be pushed right, let alone far right, but I am alienated by those on the left spouting oppressive views whilst believing they are progressive.

I do think it is unacceptable for any community or citizen in the UK to operate in a way that denies opportunities to females - or disabled people, or gay people etc. I think they should have freedom of thought, and freedom of expression, but not be able to act in ways that denies others equality of opportunity.

roseyposey · 12/10/2025 10:17

Yes my point is to try and counter some of the alarmist opinions on this thread.

The British judge ruled in a common sense way not in a way to show slavish adherence to “respecting other religions”. I applaud him.

Merrymouse · 12/10/2025 10:18

Tiatha · 12/10/2025 10:08

@ProfoundlyPeculiarAndWeird I'm curious as to why religiously observant men cannot run with women? They don't need to touch them or see them in skimpy clothing. What's the barrier?

I am a person of faith and admire many things about Islam. But I think when a person's religious observance conflicts with the rights of people in a protected class to participate in something like this, it is up to the person with the restrictive religious observances to remove themselves if they consider the two incompatible.

I'm curious as to why religiously observant men cannot run with women? They don't need to touch them or see them in skimpy clothing. What's the barrier?

And presumably there is nothing to stop them encountering female runners when they leave the house at other times?

SerendipityJane · 12/10/2025 10:18

Will they prevent people who identify as men from entering ? And - critically - how much support will they get from the state to do so.

We all know exactly how serious a crime it is to prevent men in frocks wanting to access womens spaces. So presumably the same dread hand will be available to lock up any women who dare wear trousers for the run.

E2A: Spelling

APTPT · 12/10/2025 10:20

Merrymouse · 12/10/2025 10:18

I'm curious as to why religiously observant men cannot run with women? They don't need to touch them or see them in skimpy clothing. What's the barrier?

And presumably there is nothing to stop them encountering female runners when they leave the house at other times?

Apparently they are incapable of controlling themselves.

BundleBoogie · 12/10/2025 10:20

5MinuteArgument · 12/10/2025 10:11

There's an all party working group looking at a definition of Islamophobia. They want to define it as a form of racism, in which case it will go further than the protection given to other religions.

It's being opposed by the National Secular Society, Free Speech Union etc. It was Angela Raynor's pet project, so hopefully now that she's out of the picture, it might be rowed back.

Apologies for the long post but this is cut and pasted from the Labour Party website. I think they are already ahead of us with their definition. We have all already committed Islamophobia in this thread by their rules (except for those arguing in favour of banning women and girls over 12 obvs). This WILL have a chillling effect on free speech and our rule of law. We’ve seen it successfully enacted on another topic.

The APPG definition in para 5. should be of particular concern to all of us. I think they just need to get this through Parliament.

  1. The NEC will view any acts of discrimination, prejudice or hostility based on religion or race as prejudicial and grossly detrimental to the Labour Party and its interests. Chapter 2, clause I.8 of the Labour Party Rule book applies to all members of the Labour Party. It provides:
  2. “No member of the Party shall engage in conduct which in the opinion of the NEC is prejudicial, or in any act which in the opinion of the NEC is grossly detrimental to the Party. The NEC and NCC shall take account of any codes of conduct currently in force and shall regard any incident which in their view might reasonably be seen to demonstrate hostility or prejudice based on age; disability; gender reassignment or identity; marriage and civil partnership; pregnancy and maternity; race; religion or belief; sex; or sexual orientation as conduct prejudicial to the Party: these shall include but not be limited to incidents involving racism, antisemitism, Islamophobia or otherwise racist language, sentiments, stereotypes or actions, sexual harassment, bullying or any form of intimidation towards another person on the basis of a protected characteristic as determined by the NEC, wherever it occurs, as conduct prejudicial to the Party. The disclosure of confidential information relating to the Party or to any other member, unless the disclosure is duly authorised or made pursuant to a legal obligation, shall also be considered conduct prejudicial to the Party.”
  3. This Code of Conduct on Islamophobia supplements the “Code of Conduct: Antisemitism and other forms of racism,” reproduced in Appendix 9 to the Labour Party Rule Book. The NEC and NCC will take this Code of Conduct on Islamophobia into account when determining allegations of hostility or prejudice based on the protected characteristic of Islam or towards Muslims.
  4. Complaints of Islamophobia will be investigated and processed in accordance with the Labour Party’s disciplinary policies, which can be found on the Labour Party’s website and in the Labour Party Complaint Handling Handbook.What is Islamophobia?
  5. There is no single agreed definition of Islamophobia, albeit various civic, social, legal and political sources have attempted to define it. One definition is the All Party Parliamentary Group on British Muslim’s definition (APPG). The APPG defines Islamophobia as:
“… rooted in racism and is a type of racism that targets expressions of Muslimness or perceived Muslimness”.

The Labour Party adopted the APPG definition and its examples in March 2019 as an important statement of principle and solidarity. The NEC reaffirms that position in this Code of Conduct.

  1. The Runnymede Trust has defined Islamophobia as anti-Muslim racism and further said:
“… any distinction, exclusion, or restriction towards, or preference against, Muslims (or those perceived to be Muslims) that has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life”.
  1. Under equality law, Muslims are a religious group and they do not comprise a distinct ethnic or national group. Unlawful discrimination against a person because they are Muslim is, therefore, a type of religious discrimination and not a type of race discrimination. Nonetheless, adherence to Islam may often be used as a proxy for race discrimination against people who are Muslim and from extra-European ethnicities. People may also perceive others to be Muslim and treat them detrimentally because they share perceived cultural or physical traits common to various ethnic groups: that may constitute hostility or prejudice based on race.
  2. One example of this sort of race discrimination arises especially against Sikhs, who may be perceived to be Muslims because of their skin colour, names, dress, religious practices and other personal attributes, and therefore subjected to prejudice. This is religious discrimination against Sikhs by perception (that they are Muslim) and also race discrimination (the perception arises from their skin colour and ethnic background).
  3. Another example is where a person makes derogatory references to Muslims but the discriminator’s real target is people from South Asia or the Middle East. This ‘dog whistle’ is used particularly by far-right political groups against Muslim, and other South Asian, politicians.Further guidance and illustrative examples
10. In all cases, whether conduct is discriminatory must be assessed according to the particular context, facts and circumstances at hand. When considering allegations of Islamophobia, the Labour Party is advised to take into account the following sorts of treatment that are likely to amount to prejudice or hostility based on the protected characteristic of Islam or ethnic or national origins: a. Inciting by word or deed hatred or violence against Muslims, including calling for or justifying actual or threatened harm towards Muslims. b. Engaging in derogatory or dehumanising stereotypes about Muslims, for example, by suggesting that Muslims in general have a particular propensity to commit, or to support, acts of terrorism; or that individuals who are Muslim are necessarily socially or politically illiberal or regressive; or that Muslims have particular physical characteristics, names, dress or moral or ethical values; or that Muslims have a propensity for violence or are incapable of living peacefully in a democratic society; or that is not used to those of other backgrounds. c. Suggesting that Muslims, individually or as a group in British society, pose a threat to British or European society, civilisation or values, for example, by claiming that Muslims are a demographic threat to British people, by claiming that Muslims are taking over British society or civic or political institutions through their presence in the same, or by catastrophising immigration from Muslim majority countries. d. Requiring Muslims to act in a way not expected or demanded of any other group. e. Requiring Muslims to criticise terrorist acts more vociferously than other people, or requiring Muslims to apologise for terrorism committed by extremists in the name of Islam, or holding Muslims collectively responsible for the acts of Muslim majority countries, paramilitary groups or terrorists. f. Using slurs or grossly offensive imagery about Muslims, portraying Muslims as sexually untrustworthy or dangerous, or that Muslims or their contemporary religious practices are cruel or violent. g. Mocking or belittling people’s personal characteristics that are associated with their national or ethnic identities or origins, for example, by mocking Muslim names, the Arabic language, or national, religious or ethnic clothing, facial hair, or other physical attributes. h. Objecting to the presence of Mosques or Koranic scripture because of their association with Islam or Muslims is very likely to be considered prejudicial. However, an objection to the presence of religious symbols, places of worship or religious scripture on the basis of secularism or atheism is very likely to be protected by the rights to freedom of conscience and freedom of expression and should not, by itself, be considered Islamophobic. i. Making irrelevant references to the protected characteristic of being Muslim. This practice is often a form of discrimination and stereotyping. It is perpetuated in media reports of alleged crime, routinely referring to the perpetrators as “Muslim”, when no other equivalent reference would be made to any other faith. j. Accusing Muslims of being a “fifth column” or of lying or acting in ‘stealth’, and/or implying a Muslim, or Muslims in general, are inherently antisemitic, homophobic and/or misogynist. k. Minimising or justifying the persecution, oppression or denial of the human rights of Muslims on the basis of concerns about ‘Islamic’ terrorism, or national security. This may manifest itself by using stereotypes in an international context (for example, in respect of the position of Palestinians or Kashmiris, to deny the right to self-determination) or in a domestic context. l. Denying, or minimising the significance of, discrimination against Muslims may demonstrate hostility or prejudice because of religion. 11. The Labour Party must remain a forum for discussion about important social and political issues that involve Islam or Muslim people. However, these discussions about important social and political issues that involve Islam or Muslim people must always be undertaken sensitively and respectfully. All Labour Party members are required to act with and to promote tolerance and respect. Personal abuse has no place in political discussion and such abuse is, for the purposes of the Labour Party, always unacceptable.
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