A space for respectful dialogue about sex, gender and diversity

[Tandora]

This is a thread for posters who want to talk and share a diverse range of opinions about sex, gender, being gender non-conforming and/or trans, and public policy. It is to learn from each other; to engage in a productive exchange, and to hear different sides of the story.

It is not a space for bullying and insults. Please do not join if your intention is to control the conversation and undermine those who disagree with you.

This ⬆️

Let me be specific.

I have not made a personal attack. I have quoted what you said.

You accused me of using my rape and sexual assault as a justification for my transphobia.

my internal cognition is that that is vile, a thinly veiled personal attack and utterly utterly abhorrent.

you also accused me of engaging in - and I quote - trauma trumps.

my internal cognition is that that is also vile, is a disgusting slur on me and utterly utterly abhorrent and a thinly veiled personal attack.

in the interests of respecting people’s internal cognition, I would respectfully ask that you stop making up lies about me as that is not respectful.

Can't see sex.

Can't see sexism.

The end.

And ultimately that's what the SC ruling recognised.

Cos language matters.

This isn't bullying to point this out.

It rather sucks for those who try and convince us otherwise doesn't it?

This nonsense really needs to stop.

It is already named FWR ( Feminism and Women's Rights - Sex and Gender).

Legal definitions protect women.

Respectfully stop telling us our legal rights don't matter.

Yeah, but Dr Upton is a trans woman, ie a trans identifying man, and therefore excluded completely anyway. Dr Upton's dreadful behaviour is thankfully not relevent here.

The EHCR allowed for the additional exclusion of a trans man, ie trans identifying woman, if her presence in a woman-only space would stop that space doing what it was intended to do, which is pretty much only going to be in cases of severe trauma. It made no provision to include a trans identifying man in women-only spaces under any circumstances.

Maybe we should just start all posts with 'respectfully' 🤣

@Taztoy

Ok. You win.

I am vile. I am disgusting. I am utterly abhorrent. I am disgusting. I am a liar.

I'm also stupid and ripe for mocking because of the things I say about trans people's "cognition".

You're the victim whose personal experience is to be centred.

I am the aggressor.

Isn't that what Tandora is doing, like somehow it makes their posts actually respectful.

Finally a post from Tandora that makes sense

We so desperately need more people to occupy the middle ground.

No we don’t. There is no middle ground. Sex is binary. A man can do whatever he wants to his body, and dress in the most floaty, feminine clothes - but he remains a man.

This is all risible.

And totally Emperor’s New Clothes.

I think they think they are, but maybe we need to be explicit so they aren't confused.

Am I being respectfully told I’m wrong again and have to agree with some misinformed bloke? How tedious.

Is this supposed to be a respectful post in a respectful thread?!

Amazing.

But you want to control the conversation 😜

But you are not having a respectful debate. You don’t debate - you use a load of AI mumbo jumbo that makes no sense in answer to difficult questions and tell anyone who disagrees with you to leave the thread. I’ve never read so much nonsense in my life

Yes - but he accepts that he is male and does not demand to be described as a female or claimed that the surgery or the hormones make it true nor has he demanded access to single sex spaces - unlike the others who claim that even a performative attempt of a bad wig and shit make up make them a woman!

If trans women’s “cognition” is to be respected why is mine not?

As to your opinion of me, respectfully, I disagree. It’s about every single women who doesn’t want to have a man in women’s single sex spaces. And the law in the U.K. says that’s their right.

if you let in one man, you have to let them all in or you are discriminated aging against men on the grounds of their sex.

So, respectfully, you need to campaign for a change to that law. Because otherwise, at this moment, the answer is no.

Yes, cos they use the word respectful it's apparently respectful and not a manipulative use of the word to immediately frame anyone who disagrees as 'disrespectful'.

Apparently.

Nah, I'm out. This is just you controlling the narrative under the guise of 'being respectful'. You aren't engaging, just sliding around your word salad.

#BeKind

This isn't worth giving oxygen to.

I think you'll find it's sarcasm, Alanis.