A space for respectful dialogue about sex, gender and diversity

[Tandora]

This is a thread for posters who want to talk and share a diverse range of opinions about sex, gender, being gender non-conforming and/or trans, and public policy. It is to learn from each other; to engage in a productive exchange, and to hear different sides of the story.

It is not a space for bullying and insults. Please do not join if your intention is to control the conversation and undermine those who disagree with you.

Are you confusing biological sex with something else?

Just remember women of Mumsnet, @Tandora is the moderator on this thread, and you’d better jolly well listen to him or he’ll refuse to answer your questions.

Sex isn’t diverse.
People are diverse.
Sex is binary
Women are diverse
Men are diverse
Women and men are diverse.
Sex is binary

Nothing. They are both male

The only bullying being carried out is by you.

Hi there, this is not the thread for personal attacks and accusations.

This thread is for a respectful exchange of ideas about sex, gender and diversity.

Oh come on.

The only criteria for being a trans'woman' is to be a man. All transwomen are men therefore you have to be a man to be a trans'woman'.

There is no other one thing that all trans'women' have in common, unless you start saying "to be a transwoman you need to hae long hair and wear make-up". That might be pretty much true because the only way a man can appear like a trans'woman' is to adopt the deeply regressive stereotypes Bowie was smashing in the early 70s, but adopting these stereotypes is not a condition of a man meaninglessly claiming to be a woman.

You’re probably not being respectful enough, you have to conform to the extremely narrow parameters that have been set in order to get a response, or you’re a bully. Apparently.

To what end?

How should society distinguish between them in practice?

Being a man is a necessary but not sufficient condition to being a transwoman.

Hiya,
Yes I am neurodivergent. In terms of robotic - I'm quite sure people wouldn't generally describe me that way.
I may appear robotic on these boards, because I've been subject to so much crap, I'm really careful/ guarded in what I post.
I sometimes use AI to answer questions about stuff I don't know (like people post a lot of info about trans ' celebrities' which is not something I follow), but my posts are my own x

Is there a way to find out if you are gender conforming? Is there a clear set of gendered expectations somewhere? Does it alter by geographical location or cultural background?

This is not a thread for mocking, bullying, trying to undermine other posters.

This is a thread for a respectful exchange of differences in opinion about sex, gender and diversity.

I’ve never once had an answer to this, from any MN TRA or any other.

"Discuss"

I am going to talk at you and tell you, you are wrong like a flat earther in denial.

That's not a discussion.

Right. Which is exactly why I said this claim doesn't describe anything - it merely obscures rather than clarifies what it is to be a transwoman.

If we use this definition we cannot tell the difference between and transwoman and a man, they essentially don't exist as a discrete category of person.

Thank you for once again demonstrating that you are only here in order to control the narrative.

I think the point is that they aren't a discrete category - they are a subset.

Do you still believe that women who have trauma around men in their single sex spaces are using their trauma to justify transphobia?

Im asking because the descriptions of your proposed types of spaces seems to have changed somewhat from a previous thread where you postulated a single sex female space solely for those who had trauma around men in female single sex spaces and I was concerned about that in that it would force women to declare their trauma to whom exactly to be allowed “in”. So thank you for changing that view.

How can a human being actually change sex? Not just taking cross sex hormones or having faux genitalia constructed out of arm skin, inverted penile skin or bowel, but actually changing their chromosomes, their skeletal system, their musculature, their endocrine system?

Hint - it is impossible.

Well done! We are making progress. Men who label themselves “trans” are not meaningfully different from other men in anything other than the sex stereotypes they adopt.

And if you say anything that I don’t like I’m going to tell you that you are disrespectful or a bully. Words are literal violence after all.

🥬

Exactly.

Nope.

I sincerely hope no-one on this’s thread would accuse any woman of weaponising their trauma from rape or sexual assault, or any male violence, @Taztoy. That would be an abhorrent view, and unacceptable in any decent human being.