TRA Trolls - can we just say NO?

[BlueEyedBogWitch]

A full thread of NO’s might be more powerful than trying to reason with someone who is not interested in reason.

Just one ‘NO’ each, until they get bored and go away. Every time.

After all, it sums up our arguments very succinctly.

@Coatsoff42

I think the bit you are missing is the part where we entirely disagree with each other on this subject. What we have in common is not the 'echo chamber' but the fact that we want/ are capable of engaging in productive, nuanced and respectful discussion.

Why should we have to defeat you? Why can’t we simply have a discussion without the jibes, trying to catch others out, and the endless veiled insults? We’re all intelligent women here. I’d love to be able to come on here and discuss issues without feeling like I need to put on my figurative psychological armour first. (And a correction: I’m not a TRA or a TRA supporter.)

It seems we cross-posted!

Troll-hunting, are you? Isn’t that banned by MN?

So people who happen to simply not entirely share your views are “trolls”. Nice.

Start with yourself. TRA’s (and Plasticcheese with the anger issues) are fabulous at stating advice that they really could do with taking themselves, or accusing posters of being the very thing that they are.

Watching you dodge valid and respectful points put to you because you have invited a pseudo world for yourself to make the impossible, possible, has been painful. None of your arguments stand up to scrutiny. The other thread is a case in point.

You are never going to make us believe in the unbelievable or that sex is a spectrum, or that males however they identify or feel about themselves are entitled to go into women’s spaces and sports. Never. So start your own thread by all means but stop derailing these discussions.

Well, that is remarkable. People complaining that this board is an echo chamber, wanting to create their own exclusive discussion thread where they don't have to deal with other posters.

People who wade into discussions which centre on women’s rights, with nothing to add on women’s rights, that are just here to scold women who want to retain single sex spaces and sports and call them ‘transphobic and right wing’, that any scrutiny and counter argument as to why men who feel differently about themselves should be allowed into said spaces is deemed ‘bullying’ by such people and who spout views that go against science and logic and harm women, I deem to be trolls, yes.

And that’s me being nice.

It’s hilarious.

Discuss it then! All you’ve added is how four years ago something happened that you can’t evidence. What else have you got?

This is exactly the sort of thing I want to avoid - people completely rewriting what was said for their own manipulative purpose.

I want to engage in a productive and thoughtful exchange. I would love to engage with any poster - regardless of their opinion - who wants to do the same, so that we can learn from each other.

I don't want to be subject to degrading personal attacks.

I think comments like this are precisely why @Tandora feels compelled to start such threads; a safe space, if you will, away from the bullying, abuse, disinformation, and desire to shame anyone who doesn't agree.

You might need to revisit the definition, then.

Nah, I’m all good.

I didn’t list the trolls. You need to report the post if you think it contravenes MN guidelines.

All I’ve added on this thread you mean? And yes, I explained it would be difficult to find some sentences from a thread I can’t recall the title of some years ago.

It appears that you have had a sense of humour bypass.

None of us want to be subject to degrading personal attacks. None of wanted to be endlessly name called as has historically happened.

Great. So if we could all stop with that, maybe we could have a useful exchange.

No, she isn't. It is not being transphobic or right-wing or extreme to believe and say that women deserve and are legally entitled to single-sex spaces, services and sports. Trans-identified men may believe they are women but the plain fact is that they aren't and other provision must be made for them. Tandora had a 1000 post thread ostensibly intended to explain to us exactly what it means to be trans and why we should therefore let men who believe they are women share our sex-based rights, but I and many others were totally unconvinced by it.

Go for it. Can't wait to see the productive, respectful and nuanced debate on why a subset of men should be allowed to overcome safeguarding protections, and how this time it is different to all the times in the past when it didn't end well.

So, you will stop accusing posters of being transphobic and other hateful accusations?

Start with not calling all and sundry transphobic for not agreeing with you/not denying reality.