TRA Trolls - can we just say NO?

[BlueEyedBogWitch]

A full thread of NO’s might be more powerful than trying to reason with someone who is not interested in reason.

Just one ‘NO’ each, until they get bored and go away. Every time.

After all, it sums up our arguments very succinctly.

Some people mistake verbosity for intelligence.

I’m sorry you had a bad experience from other posters on Mumsnet that appears to have nothing to do with anyone here. It’s distressing when people have no empathy for your experiences, I can certainly relate to that.

Absolutely. But, I fear, that you are talking to a brick wall. Some‡ posters here aren't especially interested in whether or not what you are saying has foundation; they are only interested in you obeying and towing the line.

‡ That's some and not all, for those posters who have been attacking @VoulezVouz and will doubtless attempt to attack me for defending her.

This.

Why do you visit here, I wonder?

You must surely have known that for many years this had been the only place where women could meet and discuss this issue openly. During the years of " No Debate" and the repeated chanting of the mantra of "TWAW". Indeed, this sub forum was created specifically to permit people to discuss the issue, leaving another board for people who wanted to discuss women's rights more generally.

This is, and has been, a meeting place, rather than a debating chamber. A place where people could come to share experiences, inform each other, be educated, follow court cases, arrange meetings and so on. It is irrelevent whether you approve of it or not, or how you view it. Your presence here is tolerated; you have been permitted space; people have engaged with you in good faith for most part.....what more do you expect?

Indeed.

No, it was FWR posters.

It has nothing to do with anyone here unless you can substantiate it. FWR isn’t a hive mind.

Anyway, I don’t know what was said, so there is no point speculating either way. I’m sorry you felt unsupported on FWR as a SA survivor, as I’ve personally found support here.

My sense is that this ( DFL) is someone who has just signed up with a new username. The tone and elucidation sounds very familiar.

YY @Shortshriftandlethal

It would be really refreshing if a new person arrived and started posting their views without the negative judgements that are usually part of their first posts. It may be a negative judgement towards women who want to discussion female single sex provisions. Or it may be the negative judgement that it isn’t what women are saying, but how they say it. Or how extreme they are.

When people complain that their opinions are not being accepted, usually those opinions have been delivered with negative judgement that is what posters push back on.

You only have to notice the liberal accusations of ‘anti-trans’ and ‘transphobic’ that keep appearing. I don’t know when I have ever seen someone who disagrees with the majority of women in the UK who don’t want male people in their single sex spaces post without calling posters ‘anti-trans’ or ‘transphobic’.

If someone wants open discussion, why would their first posts denigrate the people they supposedly want to have a discussion with?

Peeps, if it was an “echo chamber” you wouldn’t be allowed to post here. Like all the many echo chambers online like Reddit, and Bluesky where “trans women are women” and no one can say otherwise. Stonewall’s literal motto was #NoDebate.

Here people have the opportunity to engage. They can bring their best arguments to the table. Surely it’s easy to defeat us in good faith? It would appear not, judging by how TRA posters and their supporters tend to conduct themselves when faced with disagreement.

Yes, quite. They all have an identical prose, and all with the same vindictive, smug and cruel edge to their tone. You'd think they'd actually make some effort when changing/creating new names to change their 'style'.

Great post, Helle.

Anyone noticed how often anti women's rights posters use the cliche "delicious irony"?

It's quite a tell, the word "delicious" highlighting that the speaker takes an almost physical pleasure in (believing they are) catching women out.

It really highlights the misogynist undercurrent of the neo sexist Genderst movement. "Ha look at them stupid feminists shooting themselves in the foot! Daft bitches should realise women aren't clever enough to decide what they need for themselves and juat do as they are told"

Yep. Quite "delicious".

Also noting 'ugly' as the go-to insult of choice.

Yes, it’s pretty transparent.

Tru dat

There is rarely, if ever, a concerted effort to consider what that poster might be saying, or to understand it

Exactly. The only goal is to mock, belittle, accuse, bully, undermine, shame, silence.

Thank you.

Maybe I will start a thread (/series of threads) for those of us who may not agree/ have very different opinions, but who are capable of respectful conversation and actually want to hear a range of different opinions on this topic and engage in a productive, respectful and nuanced exchange. We can hopefully collect people as we go.

The usual suspects can call us trolls and hopefully hide the thread(s).

@DahnFrumLunden @VoulezVouz @Plastictreees ?

They need to add Bee and Howie to the list.