TRA Trolls - can we just say NO?

[BlueEyedBogWitch]

A full thread of NO’s might be more powerful than trying to reason with someone who is not interested in reason.

Just one ‘NO’ each, until they get bored and go away. Every time.

After all, it sums up our arguments very succinctly.

I've always said I believe their are circumstances where it is proportionate to limit certain services by birth sex , in the same way we might have a service just for black women( or just for lesbians, etc.

Well until you can define what trans is, no one can be transphobic, so it’s a meaningless word. What is transphobia? Is it saying no to trans people? Is it women refusing to give up their sex based rights? Who knows. It has no meaning.

It’s also breathtaking DARVO. The pp has themselves had posts deleted multiple times for breaking talk guidelines, but there you go.

And yet, these are words, ‘anti-trans’ and ‘transphobic’, that you accuse others of being frequently. Yet you now declare that you answering a question about your use of these words is fallacious.

You could have said, not really, because… and explained in depth. But instead you chose to deflect in this way and then accuse me of controlling behaviour. Plus ca change.

And no Tandora, I have asked you questions for years, asked to see your evidence, because I have sought to understand your position. Your answers over the past week have not clarified your position. And you still constantly accuse others of being ‘anti-trans’ and ‘transphobic’.

Great. I had not ever heard that. So you're in line with the SSEs in the EA. Cool! Glad we've found some common ground.

You are right, it's completely pointless - there's absolutely nothing I could do or say that would make an iota of difference . It just concerns me that new people come in and become radicalised.

Yes. It’s proportionate to allow women single sex spaces This means you understand transwomen are not women and don’t belong in them. So yay. We got there. All spaces labelled women only therefore exclude males as they are not women.

It just means you disagree with any of the trans beliefs. Therefore it's not a problem to be transphobic.

Exactly. Until someone can define trans, I refuse to be labelled transphobic as I can’t be afraid of something I can’t define.

Well I disagree with them. As long as we have a simple division based on sex I believe women's sports will always continue to be seen as lesser / inferior to men's and women's athletic ability continue to be denigrated.

And what are those circumstances ?

Thank you for your honesty.

Same principle but opposite view, I'll gladly accept being called transphobic, as it means the person saying that has no further argument to make and has resorted to pointing out that I don't believe in their beliefs. Which is true.

Could be a range of things - Specialist rape crisis support potentially. Particular mental or physical health services.

So how are we doing the divisions if not by sex? Gender? But then what about non binary people? Where do they go? Won’t this mean trans identified females will have no hope of ever winning competitions?

nah, sex is the fairest way. Sorted

I'm very heartened to find single sex spaces are supported by so many. After all that Sturm and Drang, I think the Supreme Court judgement is settling in.

It's very straightforward common sense, after all.

Right. In your world nothing is transphobic.

nah,any space deemed for women only must therefore exclude males as a male is not a woman. A woman is an adult human female. Not someone male who “believes” they’re female.

Well that's ridiculous. No women would be picked for a men's cricket team they can't hit the ball as far or bowl as fast due to biology. So it wouldn't be a mixed team. As it is they can play an entertaining skilful game of cricket.

Ok. Hopefully the conversation can move on now from what is and isn't transphobic, and back onto things that matter.

There are things that you could categorise as “transphobia” but I think it’s mostly based on homophobia. It doesn’t include saying no when people say men should be classed as women.

We have already had threads about your unrealistic theories on how to recategorise sports. It has also been pointed out to you that the sports experts have also had these discussions in depth over the years and one by one the sporting federations have come to the conclusions that there is no ‘better’ categorisation needed in the female sports category than we have already.

And it is a falsity to declare that ‘it is only a few’ so not relevant. It only takes 2 or 3 male people to displace 2000 or more female athletes along the way just for national level competition in some countries. It is not ‘irrelevant’ at all.

By all means, happy to keep discussing, however all you ever did was come up with statements like ‘there must be a better way’ while refusing to accept that for competitive sports there is no ‘more nuanced’ categories needed for female sports.

Mixed sex sports, fine. Specific categories for specific ‘nuanced’ needs, sure. Restructuring the Female Sports categories to allow male people to participate in those categories. No, I don’t agree and I don’t believe the sporting federations agree with you either.

Well how can it be? If you can’t define trans, how can anything be transphobic? Abd what even is transphobia? I mean, if it’s saying no to males wanting to access female spaces, then surely the males are misogynistic by saying no to women who want single sex spaces. So therefore all trans identified males , and those campaigning to allow them to access female spaces are misogynistic.

And the England women's rugby team is currently considerably better and more entertaining than the mens. None of them would get picked in a male team, and it's a bloody good thing too. Ellie Kildunne spent 12 days out on the concussion step in the world cup. Now if a man had tackled her it could have been so much worse.

Sorry but, in practice, yes it does. Almost always, this is how the term is being applied.