Kelly v Leonardo Employment Tribunal Thread 3

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Ms BM Kelly v Leonardo UK Limited Employment Tribunal – hearing Case number: 8001497/2024

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Abbreviations:
C or MK - Claimant, Maria Kelly
NC - Naomi Cunningham, barrister for C
KW - Katy Wedderburn, solicitor for C
R or L - Respondent. Leonardo UK
ST - Susanne Tanner KC, barrister for R
J - Judge
P - Panel member
GC - gender critical
GI - gender identity
AL - Andrew R Letton VP People Shared Services Leonardo - respondent witness

Tribunal Tweets coverage here

https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/kelly-vs-leonardo-uk-ltd

Thread 1 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5416903-kelly-v-leonardo-employment-tribunal-29th-september-10am?page=1

Thread 2 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5420656-kelly-v-leonardo-employment-tribunal-thread-2?page=1

He was probably of the very very VERY mistaken belief that all employment tribunals are the same.

Enter Naomi...

If Andy has been involved in ETs before he should know to prepare for them. But then he's probably never been put through an NC grilling before. He thoought he'd wing it. Ha!

From TT

AL - therefore as part of our approach...we felt only right to support the consultation.
NC - p408. ONe of the q was 'Established policies regarding bullying, harrassment...' Do you know who to contact
can you help the tribunal what kind of harassment is envisaged?

AL - staff expressed concerns about judgement and wanted to have a support. To ensure all the nec support mechanisms in place
NC - can you make answer concrete please? What would be harrasment

Thanks for the Shakespeare. For some reason, a Brecht quote I had long forgotten has chosen now to float back to the useful bit of my mind.

Whoever doesn't know the truth is simply a fool, but whoever does know the truth, and calls it a lie...he is a crook.

NC asking him to cut the corporate bollocks replies make his answers more concrete.

Ooh yes! (Giggle)

Hmm.

My masters, are you mad? Or what are you?

Or

If you prized my lady’s favour at anything more than contempt, you would not give means for this uncivil rule.

Both Malvolio.

From TT

AL - not sure of any specifics. [again muffled/unclear]
NC - I will try one more time and then leave it. [reads from q] It envisages there might be harrassment
AL - it was a general view
NC - I will suggest to you it is obvious what harass is envisaged here

😍😘🐞

Lots of engineers are dyslexic ime - it's a good career for people who are very bright but not that good with words. In this case, I'm guessing NC-induced panic is a more likely explanation!

From TT

NC - It's envisaged women and single sex toilets isn't it
It is one of the possibilitiesthat sits behind that. I want to suggest to you that the message in this question, is that we have back of TIM 'we have your back
AL - disagree

That threat of disciplinary action was withdrawn when MK's solicitors said they would make a claim for victimisation if it was not.

'Gender critical woman threatened employer into dropping disciplinary action, tribunal hears' - BBC headline later, probably.

Pillow-fight? Bah humbug! They're not even trying to hit each other! And none of the pillows has burst resulting in a slow-motion snow-storm of feathers!

Absolutely. Imagine having to tell someone like AL, who has no clue about women, about your heavy periods, or your sexual assault, or miscarriages, or men wanking in the next toilet (which would never happens at Leonardo, he says, but how would he know?). A guy at my work was convicted for child pornography. Until he was in the newspaper I had no idea. Not that any of these reasons should be necessary in order to have female-only toilets.

And he believes, or claims to believe, that TWAW. Yet those things happen overwhelmingly to women, and in some cases only to women. I have yet to hear of a TW having a miscarriage or a heavy period.

And then they plan how to take over the world? Does anyone mind if I skip the pillow fight and come straight in to the plotting. I've found an old sluice control room under a lake that'd make a lovely secret lair.

I googled MK@s solicitor just now and found she was last week at a symposium at Keble College, Oxford, where Prof Foran now works. I wonder if she bought him a pint?

🔥

I don't doubt that there are some very bright engineers. Andy has done nothing to lead me to believe he is one of them. He has no problem with words. He uses a lot of them. They are nearly all bollocks and he doesn't understand some of them.

Andy seems to be attempting to play dumb

From TT

NC - given that message - if you stand your ground about single sex spaces, they may be discp for harassment, That's deliberate.
AL - disagree

NC can you talk about what might happen next if C goes to the toilet and finds a TIM there after SC judgement, 'this is a women's space'

I don't see that

'Play' is doing some heavy lifting there.

I was being kind 😁

Does it have a mythical monster to guard it, like the Loch Ness Monster?

JKR works the door at night.

As an apprentice in the 1970s he wasn't bright enough to get a degree. He's a time-served company man.