Kelly v Leonardo Employment Tribunal Thread 3

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Ms BM Kelly v Leonardo UK Limited Employment Tribunal – hearing Case number: 8001497/2024

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Abbreviations:
C or MK - Claimant, Maria Kelly
NC - Naomi Cunningham, barrister for C
KW - Katy Wedderburn, solicitor for C
R or L - Respondent. Leonardo UK
ST - Susanne Tanner KC, barrister for R
J - Judge
P - Panel member
GC - gender critical
GI - gender identity
AL - Andrew R Letton VP People Shared Services Leonardo - respondent witness

Tribunal Tweets coverage here

https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/kelly-vs-leonardo-uk-ltd

Thread 1 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5416903-kelly-v-leonardo-employment-tribunal-29th-september-10am?page=1

Thread 2 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5420656-kelly-v-leonardo-employment-tribunal-thread-2?page=1

Why haven’t they swapped his microphone out for a different one?

Why is he reading so slowly? I thought that engineers are usually quite academically intelligent.

Under those allegations, being well organised is indeed a slur.

Look at you, over there, with all your pieces of paper, a diary, and a laptop!

And understanding

I'm imagining them with old school ear trumpets.

From TT

NC - this is a softer tone isn't it, and true to her word she didn't add vict claim. Also true isn't it that she considers she has been badly treated because of GC belief, she has kept this claim to the point of principle -
AL - yes
NC - in the course of your career you

IANAA - I am not an audiologist but I think it's the sticky-out bit, or the 'shell-like' to give it it's technical name😄that has to be big to improve the hearing.😁

That threat of disciplinary action was withdrawn when MK's solicitors said they would make a claim for victimisation if it was not.

Or modern heaphones, which improve intelligibility a lot!

I once told an employer if me making something they were doing public would make them look bad, the problem wasn’t really me making the behaviour public.

Alternating strategic machinations with giggly pillow fights, in my experience.

There's a line in Midsummer Night's Dream, when the workmen are learning the play 'pray you, if it be, give it me now for I am slow of study'.

That's AL, that is.

From TT

..can you agree this is unusually co-operative case
AL the conduct of this one....[muffled, again]
NC -turn to bundle

sorry it's 285 over the page part of the exch early Feb 24. Look at the email bottom 224/225 15April, it says 'should be recognised...as employers the law should be our guiding principle'
Do you agree with that?
AL Yes in principle that would be my view

I have these, it doesn't help.

Can you find a relevant Twelfth Night one I've already got an image for that

Not in practice where it discriminates against women… ? Just wondering what in ‘principle’ means, if not also in practice.

From TT

NC - you sound hesitant
AL - no no
NC - p407 the questionnaire in the aftermath of Supreme Court For Women Scot.

But if you hang around for enough decades, are male, and don't rock the boat - especially when, apparently, well-connected trans-identifying males join your company - you'll get on very well.

I’ve seen merchant of death mentioned a few times throughout these threads. For some light but sobering entertainment for those in that industry, please check out Youth Pastor Ryan on YouTube. He’s probably on other platforms too. He’s not a youth pastor. He just looks like one. Anyway, he makes videos about what horrific death causing things have been invented and made by big companies that we don’t generally associate with death or arming the enemy during war. Entertaining with a side of WTF.

True to form there’s a male on there claiming to experience period symptoms.

Does L usually employ a vox pop before applying the law? 😂

From TT

NC - after the intro, it sets out questions that it's important to capture your understanding.
Do you have any view on how it should be enforced (quotes from questionnaire).
So it seems that L thought fit to ask it's pred male workforce, 'what do you think this means...

..should we do what it says'
AL - talks about unions, all employees of company have participated in the survey [again muffled]
NC - do you usally use a vox pop? Is that a normal way to procede?
AL - this situation very sensitive

NC briefly asked and Andy confirmed he had been involved in several ETs before. She didn't expand. Do I sense we may come back to this?

NC: Does Leonardo usually conduct a vox pop of its staff before complying with the law?

BRUTAL

Weird that NC is pretty clear. Might that be because she’s got a wall behind her and witness is in an open space?

Is Andy beginning to realise yet?