Kelly v Leonardo Employment Tribunal Thread 2

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Ms BM Kelly v Leonardo UK Limited Employment Tribunal – hearing Case number: 8001497/2024

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Abbreviations:
C or MK - Claimant, Maria Kelly
NC - Naomi Cunningham, barrister for C
KW - Katy Wedderburn, solicitor for C
R or L - Respondent. Leonardo UK
ST - Susanne Tanner KC, barrister for R
J - Judge
P - Panel member
GC - gender critical
GI - gender identity
AL - Andrew R Letton VP People Shared Services Leonardo - respondent witness

Tribunal Tweets coverage here

https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/kelly-vs-leonardo-uk-ltd

Thread 1

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5416903-kelly-v-leonardo-employment-tribunal-29th-september-10am?page=1

Does he realise we can all see him just sat there on his own fidgeting?

Yup, Andy is about to transition into early retirement, even if he doesn't know it yet.

Just wanted to thank @Easytoconfuse for making me smile in the middle of my anger.. I'm so sorry this happened to you but relieved the harrassment stopped so fast!

Easytoconfuse · Today 12:02

I was working on some noisy equipment. He came up behind me and put his hand on my breast. I'd been concentrating, so I jumped. My office chair on castors shot backwards. I'm the environmentally sized sort of woman (some say small). He was at just the right height for my control nut to hit his nuts. I heard a thud, looked round and he was on the floor and howling so I had to explain what happened. No one ever got groped again, and by the look of things it really hurt! That was 35 years ago so why hasn't anything changed?

(I 'm so worried that women's rights seem to be going backwards in some places (like the NHS Fife 'get your tits out for the lads' changing room policy..)

But AL keeps getting up off the canvas when you think NC has delivered a knock-out blow - sorry, I seem to have slipped into boxing-speak!
Late yesterday he came back at her when she called men men, and said they were transgender females.
Today he comes back with 'but what about the T people, we must respect the T people', as if none of what she said had sunk in..

The Jake LaMotta of the genderwoo world - refused to be knocked down, no matter how much of a battering he was getting.

Wow, wow, wow!

I've just read all of TT's tweets.

Naomi is on fire 🔥

'Yes. Um'.

Go Naomi, the man knows damned well what the issues were.

The whole accessible toilet rubbish -
a) that only works until you have a wheelchair using employee (yes, I know, many other conditions and needs, and again he won't know who) and contains rather a lot of ableism, wtf would he do when he can't send inconvenient women there?

And b) suggesting that trans identified people use the accessible provision immediately unleashes howls and wails about 'outing' (is it appropriate or right to 'out' women who are not willing to undress and be enclosed with male colleagues and likely have reasons for feeling this way/invite questions and challenge on this any more than it is ok to 'out' men with gender identities?)

c) it also usually unleashes a lot more unsavoury howls about the 'slur' of being perceived as disabled. Suffice to say if it's not sauce for the bloody gander, it cannot be sauce for the goose either.

Nipping on to say I have been ridiculously busy, THANK YOU all for the commentary, zooming off again for a lunch meeting with a client (how awful, I know!)

Catch up properly later.

I'm so old that it was just part of dealing with men and we all looked out for each other. He was an Admin manager, but was moved on afterwards because everyone had turned to look when he started to crumple. I was known thereafter as the KFB (Killer Fluffy Bunny). I've always felt that anyone who is stupid enough to look at me and think girlie is fair prey.

What makes me furious is that my daughter is older than I was then and nothing seems to have changed.

Re. what he said about all Leonardo employees being so nice. I googled 'Leonardo S.p.A. sexual assault'. Amid all the noise about spas and Leonardo di Caprio(!) I found this report (link to pdf)

Source: Leonardo UK https://share.google/qBNkO6IfPWkHTZkyr

Which I've only glanced at, from 2021with this factoid (if the picture passes the MN vetting)

Thank you Naomi!!!!

NC’s point about women having to just pretend they don’t see the men for what they are, or have to make a big fuss sums it up. Then pointing out this is bullying women. Extra barrier to being able to speak out is when the managers snigger about women maybe committing ‘a hate crime’ if they call it out for what it is. Damned if you do and damned if you don’t. Well filibustered if they want to get on in the company.

It would appear Leonardo’s (along with many others) have revelled in shutting up women. Not even just ‘thrashing their rights’, but sniggering up their sleeves whilst pretending men are much more vulnerable and so women need to stop whinging and nagging them about the horrible situation Leonardo (and others) have imposed on women.

ST came into the empty room immediately after him and sat down. We can't see her as her seat is off camera. Noone else came in for ages. The cynic in me thinks that might have been to ensure he maintained the business persona in front of the camera.

Back in and sorting microphones

Oh thank the lord he has moved the mic

Plus he confirms every (contract) man they let into the building is just lovely too……

Sadly a repositioned microphone has done nothing to improve Andy's mumbling.

Unfortunately it's not improved things much

Maybe he believes being a woman is a disability.

One of the things my ex employer raked me over coals for was "insisting" they out their trans staff, who in the next breath were definitely not trans because they hadn't officially come out and so therefore were just particularly tall, broad, hirsute women.

His what about the T questions are giving me flashbacks to 'nam, sat in that excessively large office with 2 glass walls in view of the entire operations floor, cool overhead white lights set to interrogation mode while my manager and another floor managers lips quivered because of the poor trans identifying man who'd knock a quick one out while I'm on my hands and knees, head in a toilet bowl, might get his wee feelings hurt.

It's painful to see higher ups from other organisations pull this version of The Script. God I hope AL stands on a lego brick barefoot when he is least expecting it and bumps his head as he's getting out of his car.

Well the mic move hasn't helped me at all, maybe it's just AL I can't understand.

👏 fantastic points.

So that will be good for all men going into the men’s then.

The absurd, disorienting gaslighting to pander to this ridiculous ideology is one of the most disturbing and upsetting things about the whole issue, for me personally

Good find!

The mic was too far over the bundle, so he moved it back to its original location. 🤦🏻‍♀️

For fucks sake, not every problem gets brought to management attention, it doesn't mean you shouldn't plan for them.