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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Always been GC, but now afraid I'm becoming transphobic

674 replies

HouseOfGuineaPigs · 30/09/2025 23:07

I've always been gender critical and 100% in support of safe spaces for natal women only. I'm completely comfortable with being gender critical. But I'm concerned I've crossed a line into becoming a full on bigot, which is something I don't want to be. Due to my own background of mental health and trauma issues I follow pages on this issue on Facebook. I just saw one with a graphic post saying Using Preferred Pronouns Is Suicide Prevention and it made me want to scream and throw things.

I've been suicidal, I've attempted. I've battled see harm and self destructive behaviours since childhood. I should be sympathetic about the struggles people are having . But I feel manipulated seeing posts like that one. I use preferred names when I'm addressing trans persons. I am kind to them, I don't mention their issues. I treat them the same as anyone else. I will call a bloke Sue even if his real name is Bob, it feels odd, but I will do it to be respectful . But calling a he a she is a step too far. I would either use their name or use they.

Why do I feel so strongly that I'm being manipulated ? None of the trans people I know have abused me in any way. They haven't infringed on my boundaries . I have 2 trans friends, another who is non binary and 2 acquaintances. They have all been decent .

I just feel resentful that I'm being made to feel responsible for someone not taking their life because I don't affirm their identity ?

I'm horrible aren't I ? Please sort my head out !

OP posts:
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TheTealPanda · 01/10/2025 10:24

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@IvyDefender is a long-time repected poster here, you - I have never heard of.

HardyQuoter · 01/10/2025 10:28

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Hoardasurass · 01/10/2025 10:29

LoftyRobin · 01/10/2025 10:18

Most people said they are fine with pregnant women and people

What people? Because most WOMEN are not

NeonFish · 01/10/2025 10:30

LoftyRobin · 01/10/2025 08:09

The fact that they exist and arent banned by the site for saying the things they do shows that this is a hub for extremists with those beliefs. There is a difference between saying that people cannot change sex and essentially wishing a lack of human rights on trans people or suggesting that a midwife disrupt someone's pregnancy and birth by arguing with them and threatening to have them assessed for parental competency.

If you are vulnerable or otherwise fragile and you spend too much time around people expressing these views whilst berating you if you do not share them. Telling you that you dont care about women unless you agree etc, then you will likely become radicalised by remaining in that environment. You will turn into the type of abusive bigot that the OP seems to fear.

Likewise, spending too much time with trans extremists who want you to believe everyone is out to get you, feminists want you dead, etc can radicalise you to the extent you want women to burn alive in a grease fire.

Guytheskiinstructor · 01/10/2025 10:31

LoftyRobin · 01/10/2025 10:17

So you believe that the only way to provide safe care to a pregnant trans man is to.chsllnege their gender identity in maternity appointments and if they refuse to drop it and identify as a woman, refer them to social services, is that about right?

Edited

Of course that is not “about right”. It’s just silly hyperbole on your part and absolutely nothing to do with me or my views.

The OP is exasperated at gender identity ideology. Understandably so!

It is nothing but a pack of regressive stereotypes.

TheTealPanda · 01/10/2025 10:32

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Ivy was right, you do sound hysterical.

NeonFish · 01/10/2025 10:34

LoftyRobin · 01/10/2025 08:17

Yes they made it clear that instead of providing maternity care for example, doctors and midwives and other staff should focus on their pronoun use and how they identify and refuse to call them by the terms they would like us to. That would be a breach of human rights.

I asked several times if people expect me to do this in the capacity of a midwife to service users, and they either said yes or repeated what actions I should take.

Those people would definitely use any power they had to abuse trans people and punish them.

If the woman who is pregnant is worried about what pronouns they are called, they have truly serious issues beyond just needing a midwife. What pronouns they are could should be the very least of their concern.

FlirtsWithRhinos · 01/10/2025 10:35

On topic:

What the "oh just be polite" argument misses (or deliberately ignores) is that there are two people in the interaction and they both have a sex. So it is impossible to "respect" a trans person's belief about their sex and the type of person it implies without implicitly condoning those beliefs apply to us as well.

The focus is always on what is respectful of the trans person, never whether what the trans person expects is considerate or respectful of the other person. It is just taken as read that the only reason to say no is irrational prejudice.

But this is wrong. It ignores the fact that if I accept that "woman", something I am, meams something other than the sex of the trans person's body, I am accepting that definition for myself as well. And that is not how I see myself.

Women (original sex based meaning) grow up with heavy social expectations to be nice and put others first, prioritising their needs, wants and comfort over our own.

Sadly this is far too often exploited against us both on a personal level by abusive or boundary-pushing men, and at a professional, political and social level by men accepting our support but sidelining our interests.

In the case of language compelled as "courtesy", what is being (deliberately) ignored by these neo sexists is that women are being asked not just to lie about who trans people are, but who we are as well.

There's a reason the neo sexist genderist movement has focused its energy on redefining women (who is one, who isn't one) rather than men - because our social context has made women more easily coerced to accomodate things that make them uncomfortable or sidelined than men are if they can be made to believe the people who are making them uncomfortable are somehow more deserving of comfort or attention.

If I don't believe my status as a woman depends on how much I align to neo-sexist beliefs about having the right set of personality characteristics to be a woman, pretending that I accept this is not just demeaning and humiliating, but deeply distressing because of how it is based in the same beliefs that lead to the historic and ongoing oppression of female people, and how it is just one more situation in which as a woman I experience my lack of power/voice in society.

So all those arguments about "juat be nice can't you" should equally well apply to the genderists who are expecting women to accept language we find degrading and dehumanising.

And yet, they don't.

Why not?

Because genderists, being neo-sexist, bring in fact a movement and a belief that cannot exist without sexism, are naturally and blithely following the same old playbook that sexist society gave them.

OP feels discomfort and anger because at some level she recognises that this is just the same old abuse and emotional manipulation that society has used to coerce women to act against our own interests forever.

NeonFish · 01/10/2025 10:35

LoftyRobin · 01/10/2025 08:18

No pregnant person is ever using the "opposite sex facilities" in maternity care.

There is no such thing as "pregnant person". Only females, that is women, can get pregnant. You are insulting every woman on this thread by insinuating otherwise.

NeonFish · 01/10/2025 10:38

LoftyRobin · 01/10/2025 08:23

Have you considered that as the site moves towards a more and more radicalised and extreme version of GC, there will be people questioning the "progress" and whether it is actually progressive?

I know that's how many people felt about Reform and NF. At first, he seemed to have some good points but then it became clear that he is just racist

Likewise, at first trans people simply wanted equal rights, not more. Then it became clear that a sizeable amount are simply violent misogynists. Strange isn't it, how you don't comment on trans violence and trans extremism. Nor do you acknowledge that trans extremism is the reason they are losing the war, and us feminists are winning - perhaps because the public can see just how dangerously extremist Trans Ideology is.

HardyQuoter · 01/10/2025 10:38

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TheTealPanda · 01/10/2025 10:38

NeonFish · 01/10/2025 10:35

There is no such thing as "pregnant person". Only females, that is women, can get pregnant. You are insulting every woman on this thread by insinuating otherwise.

💯

Why @LoftyRobin do you think it is reasonable to come in here and continuously degrade women like this?

LoftyRobin · 01/10/2025 10:40

TheTealPanda · 01/10/2025 10:38

💯

Why @LoftyRobin do you think it is reasonable to come in here and continuously degrade women like this?

Referring to someone else as a pregnant person doesn't take anything from women who are pregnant.

HardyQuoter · 01/10/2025 10:40

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ilod · 01/10/2025 10:41

are people still responding to this poster in good faith as someone who is allegedly GC?

Howseitgoin · 01/10/2025 10:41

OldCrone · 01/10/2025 08:31

Iv'e commented on various forums for years & only encountered misunderstandings here with a particular few which I suspect as wilful given the severity of ideological dogma they exhibit.

Perhaps we're just speaking a different language.

When we say that people can't change sex, we call that scientific fact. You call it ideological dogma.

What's convention is respecting peoples wishes to how they wish to be referred to. What's not convention is deciding it for them.

Does this apply to everyone, however they want to be referred to? Should I respect Rachel Dolezal's identity as a black woman? Should I respect Stephonknee Wolscht's identity as a 6-year-old girl? What about that bloke who stands in the shopping centre declaring that he's Jesus?

What about criminals like Isla Bryson and Sarah Jane Baker?

If a male person assaults me and it ends up in court, can he still decide that I should refer to him as he chooses? Whose rights should be more important here? The criminal or his victim?

Again, the convention being violated is the personal choice of another's wishes on how they wish to be referred to. IE Its not always about how you. Social convention is about respecting other people.

But once again, you seem to have forgotten that respect should go both ways. How is it showing respect to me to expect me to lie? That's not respect, it's coercion.

Again social convention is not about 'facts'. Its about preferences. You are entitled to your preferences of how you wish to be treated as are others. And if you deny those preferences to some but not to others, that is text book discrimination.

It's not about preferences. If I demanded that it was my preference to be referred to as Her Supreme Majesty the Wonderful and Amazing Old Crone, you might (quite reasonably) say no. Would it change your mind if I said I'd kill myself if you didn't (and it would be your fault)? Is it discrimination to say no to my declared preference?

BTW gender identification is a fact. Right or wrong, societal standards of gendered roles are a fact.

If gender identification is a fact, perhaps you could give a definition. Your second sentence seems to be anti-feminist bollocks.

As I said I support your right to your own opinions & freedom to do so. What I don't support is your imposing those on others. Big difference.

I also support your right to your own opinions. And I don't support you imposing your anti-woman genderist crap on the rest of us. Including pronoun nonsense.

Nobody deserves to be deprived of their rights & dignity because of their beliefs.

So you are now agreeing that women shouldn't be stripped of their rights and their dignity simply because they refuse to comply with genderist demands? Good.

When we say that people can't change sex, we call that scientific fact. You call it ideological dogma.

You're unable to recognise your dogma because you don't understand what social constructions are. You falsely believe the concept of 'woman' is some sort of never changing set in stone 'fact' when all it is is a socially constructed word based on cultural associations.

Words come in to being by social associations not by a particular phenomena. Phenomena might be related to the concept via cultural association but they are not what determine it. It's cultural associations or agreed cultural meaning. That's why word meaning evolves over time because culture does. Hence 'chair' once only meant a 'seat' but has now evolved to mean a 'position' in a meeting. That they are both phenomena that exist in the world isn't what determines the word its agreed social associative meaning that does.

'Woman', theoretically for most people has biological associations however in practice socially we usually don't know the reproductive traits of a person but determine whether they are a woman or man based on stereotypical associations hence a 'woman' factually can be a person with either biological or stereotypical associations. Now you might say as I'm sure you will 'but stereotypes are wrong' but that's irrelevant to the fact that stereotypes are overwhelmingly used to determine gender.

"Does this apply to everyone, however they want to be referred to? Should I respect Rachel Dolezal's identity as a black woman? Should I respect Stephonknee Wolscht's identity as a 6-year-old girl? What about that bloke who stands in the shopping centre declaring that he's Jesus?

The context here is pronouns & its not as if preferred pronouns don't have any basis in facts as in cultural associations because they do as I just mentioned.

"What about criminals like Isla Bryson and Sarah Jane Baker?
If a male person assaults me and it ends up in court, can he still decide that I should refer to him as he chooses? Whose rights should be more important here? The criminal or his victim?"

If you've ever been in court you might notice alleged criminals are still afforded basic civilities. That they might of committed a crime does not mean they forfeit their rights to be treated humanely.

"But once again, you seem to have forgotten that respect should go both ways. How is it showing respect to me to expect me to lie? That's not respect, it's coercion."

This is silly. You aren't lying. Respecting someones wishes isn't the same as endorsing them.

"It's not about preferences. If I demanded that it was my preference to be referred to as Her Supreme Majesty the Wonderful and Amazing Old Crone, you might (quite reasonably) say no. Would it change your mind if I said I'd kill myself if you didn't (and it would be your fault)? Is it discrimination to say no to my declared preference?"

Firstly, preferred pronouns are based in reality as discussed unlike your examples. Secondly I'm not suggesting suicidality is a justification rather consistency in maintaining social conventions.

If gender identification is a fact, perhaps you could give a definition. Your second sentence seems to be anti-feminist bollocks.

It's interesting that those who claim to be aligned with reality are often those who can't accept it. Something about ideological dogma? Gendered identification with gendered social roles are adhering to societal expectations dictating how individuals should act, feel, and behave based on their gender. That society has certain gendered expectations right or wrong is a fact.

LoftyRobin · 01/10/2025 10:42

NeonFish · 01/10/2025 10:34

If the woman who is pregnant is worried about what pronouns they are called, they have truly serious issues beyond just needing a midwife. What pronouns they are could should be the very least of their concern.

Thats what some people say about several aspects of pregnancy and childbirth that a lot of people care deeply about.

Thankfully we are moving away from that.

LoftyRobin · 01/10/2025 10:42

Hoardasurass · 01/10/2025 10:29

What people? Because most WOMEN are not

Haven't found that to be the case.

LoftyRobin · 01/10/2025 10:44

Lougle · 01/10/2025 10:15

I disagree. I would absolutely campaign for transmen to use maternity services. Why wouldn't I? They're female and it's a service for females.

Nobody actually thinks they are men.

Polls show that to be untrue.

Hoardasurass · 01/10/2025 10:46

LoftyRobin · 01/10/2025 10:40

Referring to someone else as a pregnant person doesn't take anything from women who are pregnant.

Yes it does, it removes our humanity. Or in parlance that you may understand better, it invalidates us and our lived reality when you chose not to acknowledge our identity and use our preferred language 😉

NeonFish · 01/10/2025 10:46

LoftyRobin · 01/10/2025 08:33

That would be alright if people with other opinions didnt attack those they disagree with. So when I tried to point out that as a midwife, it would be unprofessional to argue with a trans person about their identity and disruptive to their maternity care, I was told I was a shit midwife then.

That's not debate and discussion that if someone disagrees, you say they are bad at their job, or a bad parent, or what have you. And the thing is, while that wouldn't stand on many threads because the users would call it out, it does stand on threads on those issues. If someone doesn't agree that all trans people are mad, many of them are bad (especially the MTF) and that they shouldn't have a place in our society where we dont constantly remind them that we disagree with their personal identity, then we are anti-feminist, probably a man and definitely predatory to women.

The fact the site allows this to stand shows that it wants to be a place for actual bigots. Not just people who don't agree that changing sex is a possibility.

They want trans people to suffer rejection and misery in every area of their life by everyone..only then will they be happy.

So when I tried to point out that as a midwife, it would be unprofessional to argue with a trans person about their identity

Would you call a male person, who believes they are the second coming of Jesus, Jesus?

They want trans people to suffer rejection and misery in every area of their life by everyone..only then will they be happy.

This sounds like extremist transperbole, and overwrought. No one on this site has ever wanted trans people to suffer like that. In fact, the only people who wish someone to suffer misery (and physical violence, torture and death) are transactivists to women.

The irony is that everything you accuse feminists of, is exactly what transactivists do.

TheTealPanda · 01/10/2025 10:47

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I mean, I do have a hair appointment at 2

As if we needed more proof you’re not a feminist… or even a woman.

LoftyRobin · 01/10/2025 10:48

Hoardasurass · 01/10/2025 10:06

Yes and they are already, they are given a MH health visitor team and there's often ss involvement from birth (sometimes before birth) and safeguarding plans put into place.
However if you really are a midwife you know this already or should do

These are all things you can decline BTW. We offer specialised care, but you can decline it. If we believe you should have this care regardless of your consent, then we have to prove that you lack the mental capacity to decide these things for yourself. Most people who have had a history is suicide attempts still have the capacity to decline this care.

EmmyFr · 01/10/2025 10:48

LoftyRobin · 01/10/2025 10:14

Even if they would (no idea who that is btw), most would want trans men to be welcomed at breastfeeding and antenatal classes. And that's the point.

Well maybe that means I've moved from GC to bigot, but I don't want bearded transmen in general breastfeeding groups. Not because I feel uncomfortable breastfeeding in front of them, I wouldn't, but because I would feel horrible thinking of the poor baby being fed artificial hormones in front of me, and I would have trouble resisting the urge to protest. It's child abuse imo. And don't get me started on transwomen "breastfeeding". 😖

Greyskybluesky · 01/10/2025 10:49

TheTealPanda · 01/10/2025 10:47

I mean, I do have a hair appointment at 2

As if we needed more proof you’re not a feminist… or even a woman.

Whut? Do feminists not have hair appointments? 🤔