Always been GC, but now afraid I'm becoming transphobic

[HouseOfGuineaPigs]

I've always been gender critical and 100% in support of safe spaces for natal women only. I'm completely comfortable with being gender critical. But I'm concerned I've crossed a line into becoming a full on bigot, which is something I don't want to be. Due to my own background of mental health and trauma issues I follow pages on this issue on Facebook. I just saw one with a graphic post saying Using Preferred Pronouns Is Suicide Prevention and it made me want to scream and throw things.

I've been suicidal, I've attempted. I've battled see harm and self destructive behaviours since childhood. I should be sympathetic about the struggles people are having . But I feel manipulated seeing posts like that one. I use preferred names when I'm addressing trans persons. I am kind to them, I don't mention their issues. I treat them the same as anyone else. I will call a bloke Sue even if his real name is Bob, it feels odd, but I will do it to be respectful . But calling a he a she is a step too far. I would either use their name or use they.

Why do I feel so strongly that I'm being manipulated ? None of the trans people I know have abused me in any way. They haven't infringed on my boundaries . I have 2 trans friends, another who is non binary and 2 acquaintances. They have all been decent .

I just feel resentful that I'm being made to feel responsible for someone not taking their life because I don't affirm their identity ?

I'm horrible aren't I ? Please sort my head out !

@Howseitgoin According to the 2021 census data, trans-identify males were five times more likely to commit sexual offences than other males. 566 times more likely than women.

you missed two thirds of that definition out, silly billy.

Meaning of female in English

female
adjective
uk/ˈfiː.meɪl/ us/ˈfiː.meɪl/
female adjective (GENDER)

belonging or relating to women or girls:
She was voted the best female vocalist.
She was the school's first trans female athlete.
...
female adjective (SEX)

belonging or relating to the sex that can give birth to young or produce eggs:
Female lions do not have manes.


belonging or relating to a plant, or part of a plant, that produces flowers that will later develop into fruit:

When planting cherry trees, you must plant a male tree and a female tree if you want to harvest any fruit.

Unlike schools, cherry trees and lions know that 'gender' is a makey-up pretend thing.

OldCrone

Thank you for asking this.

I want to know just what gender stereotypes make me so womanly. If I fail the test, I must be male.

Men who id as women are 5× more likely to be a sex offender than other men

Despite some suggesting that it’s all very complex, it really isn’t. It is simply a matter of categories. There are infinite ways to categorise human beings. For example:

1. Categorical variable = sex. There are 2 discrete values, Males (boys and men) and females (girls and women).

2. Categorical variable = gender identity. There are infinite discrete values, some of which reference the discrete values within the categorical variable of sex, but require a different label, because they are referring to a different value. ‘Male’ and ‘female’ (woman/girl/boy/ man) aren’t gender identities, so they can’t be values within the category ‘gender identity’. Adding a prefix or suffix to a value within one classification system (e.g gender identity) that belongs to a different classification system (e.g sex) does not mean the value is a subset, subclass, or semantic extension of the original.

I suspect that I'm almost certainly 100% male according to our mansplaining friend. (Apart from my 100% female body that is.)

Can't wait for the list.

It a male person is 'decategorised' from the female sex category for any purpose, it is proof that they are not female people and that the attempt at categorisation was false.

Dear GC MNers, thanks for taking apart @Howseitgoin’s responses to my posts - agree with you all so you have a saved me some RSI of my own

I’m fascinated by @Howseitgoin’s belief that women do follow a strict gender stereotype in the main. I’ve heard many TRAs say it’s not about stereotypes at all, so it’s interesting that @Howseitgoin not only says it’s about embracing a stereotype in order to “be” a woman, but also knows so little about actual women. I wonder if the view that women are like this is the view of someone who forms an idea of women through media where those stereotypes are promoted, e.g. porn, certain types of video games, manga etc.

As a wise MNer once said, go into any Asda and you’ll see lots of women with short hair, in jeans and t-shirts or fleeces, calculating budgets and that’s just a snapshot of women who are doing the e stereotypically female-gendered shopping. Beyond that there’s a whole world of gender-nonconformity with women doing every type of job, embracing every type of appearance, and resisting/ignoring the stereotypes that exist to limit them. Generally speaking, women are far more gender-non-conforming than men. That may be why it’s so hard for feminine men to just be themselves instead of thinking they’re women.

But @Howseitgoin’s patronising teachings do illustrate the rank sexism of gender ideology perfectly.

I’m not a feminist who opposes all gender per se. I think gender is a form of cultural expression that arises out of sexed differences in order to emphasise them, which serves a societal purpose. Some aspects of gender are arbitrary, unstable and IMO harmless in isolation - such as hair length for example. I think it is understandable that human societies have cultural expressions that signify “masculine” and ‘feminine” to emphasise male and female, and people use these to express to others who they are, especially in same-sex bonding and in looking for a partner.

The problem comes where gender is used to restrict people’s lives and freedoms and people are punished for not conforming. Not confirming to gender is another kind of gender expression and another kind of signal. It may signal that you are gay, arty or countercultural, or don’t care - and everyone should be free to express or not express gender norms - so that people are free to embrace both their actual sex which they cannot change, and their personality and interests and abilities. If their personality is “conforming” or feminine when they happen to be female, that’s OK to me. But many women have always resisted stereotypes and refused to conform - throughout history. They were and are still women.

It is not the case that if you’re feminine or drawn to feminine stereotypes when you’re male, that means you’re a woman. Woman is a sex category. If you change its name, that sex category will still be there and males will still never be in it. Mens and women’s bodies are different and one cannot become the other. Furthermore, trying to make one approximate the other causes serious health problems - unsurprisingly.

GI teaches that gender is wedded to sex and that non-conforming is not an option, if you non-conform, you must “be” the opposite sex (or of course “non-binary”).

If, as a trans-identifying person, you think you are “non-conforming”, that simply indicates you know what sex you are really.

This is great!!

BIMODAL SEX MODEL
THE STEREOTYPE LIST THAT MAKES MALE PEOPLE FEMALE

We are learning SO much on these threads.

Me too! According to almost everything I do, wear, my skills and hobbies, I’m a man according to @Howseitgoin And was certainly a boy as a child. At the very least I must be NB. (Like most people…)

So I wonder what it means, according to GI, if I don’t believe myself to be “trans”? You are what you say you are right? So if if I say I’m a woman I am, but I don’t follow the stereotype so am I allowed to be a woman according to you @Howseitgoin?

TW are a sub category of men, not of women.

Please can one of the gender experts here advise on the following:

If gender identity becomes mandatory and I have to choose based upon personality stereotypes, I'd like to know why declaring myself transman or NB automatically means my tits have to go?

The female penis is well documented and i reckon there's a lot on NB penises out there. Why WHY is the media flooded with the mastectomy scars of women with trans and NB identifies? Why are masculine and NB boobs not celebrated?

One of my "masculine" traits is owning my own sexuality, enjoying sex and not accepting shit sex. Removing half of my potential for sexual pleasure is not the kind of thing a sexually dominant person would do.

Interesting article on how Simone De Beauvoir's The Second Sex has been manipulated by gender theorists such as Judith Butler:

....refused to separate body from identity, and believed that it was only through understanding women’s embodied reality that we could combat patriarchal cultural norms. Her essential position can be summed up simply: sex is the material ground of women’s lives, gender the cultural elaboration of that ground, and liberation comes not from denying the body, but by transforming the meaning imposed upon it......

.....Today, however, Beauvoir is mostly taught through the lens of foundational gender theorist Butler, who claimed to extend her work. But as I argue in my book, Butler actually ignored Bouvoir’s book, collapsing the notion of “becoming a woman” into performance, where repeated gestures conjure the illusion of sex. In Butler’s version, gender is the creator of sex. She makes no mention of puberty, childbirth, or aging.......

https://unherd.com/2025/10/how-simone-de-beauvoir-got-me-cancelled/

https://theconversation.com/baseless-anti-trans-claims-fuel-adoption-of-harmful-laws-two-criminologists-explain-206570#:~:text=But%20as%20criminologists%2C%20we%20know%20these%20claims,victim%20of%20a%20crime%20as%20cisgender%20people.

That proves my point. That women and female mean the same thing. Thanks for proving my point.

Why would I (or anyone) believe a biased article over actual moj and ons data and statistics which is what the graph is posted displays

I see we have another form of the National Crime Victimisation survey being leveraged as some kind of proof that male people with transgender identities should be allowed to access female single sex spaces.

What is pretty funny is that the article is dismissing that there is reliable data showing no change in criminal activity and suggesting that survey is 'reliable'.

Remarkable that posting a different article that uses the same data still doesn't make that data any more reliable for the inclusion of male people into female single sex provisions.

Oh the old 4 times as likely debunked lie. Anything that has 'anti trans' in it we know immediately has a skewed anti women agenda. So that link is completely irrelevant and is a complete lie. Evidence from UK, US, Canada and NZ all uniformly show transwomen sexually offend 5 times more than other males. It's a uniform statistic that no one, not even you, can argue against.

The problem with your analysis is that you take TWAW literally. When all trans women are doing is identifying more with the inclinations socially associated with women than men. No one is suggesting this makes them 'biological' women rather socially more associated in terms of typical inclinations.

That a minority of women don't ascribe to gendered stereotypes is irrelevant to the fact that society as a whole ascribes certain actions as female coded. Again it's not trans people that make these rules its wider society by their overwhelming actions that you yourself partake in.

Perhaps if you drop the literal fixation with words it might start to make sense.

The problem with your analysis is that you take TWAW literally. When all trans women are doing is identifying more with the inclinations socially associated with women than men.

Er, what? Seriously, what? Have you even seen social media? Have you not seen the trans identifying males who really really think they are women?

Not familiar with India Willoughby, are you?

Perhaps if you drop the literal fixation with words it might start to make sense.

Ha ha ha.

"Relating"…..

Even if TW were 4 x more likely to be the victims of violent crime, that doesn't mean they should be allowed in women's spaces.

Men in general are more likely to be victims of violent crime than women. That is probably because of things like gang violence, men being more likely to get into fights, and being more powerful and aggressive/quick to violence than women when that happens.

Does that mean men should have access to women's spaces? No. Also not according to TW who claim they can't go in the men's spaces because they'd be at risk, so they have to go in the women's. But all men are at a degree of risk when they go in the men's. The risk you statistically face that is linked to your sex should be addressed and reduced if possible, but it doesn't make you a woman and women still deserve protection from male harassment, violence, ogling, flashing and other sex offending, and intimidation.

Just a reminder of how that 'four times' sound bite gets misused.

Here is a quote that keeps appearing on these threads:

”Transgender people are over four times more likely than cisgender people to experience violent victimization, including rape, sexual assault, and aggravated or simple assault”

It was from this press release.

williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/press/ncvs-trans-press-release/

I have a few issues with this press release. I think it has been used widely and extensively since it was released. I believe this document discusses those crime statistics

escholarship.org/content/qt7c3704zg/qt7c3704zg.pdf?t=qqfomk&v=lg

It refers to 369 trans people vs 435 061 people who were not trans identified in a study.

How strange that the sample size was not mentioned at all in the press release!!
I might have forgotten most of what I learned from my Statistics module at uni but 0.0008 (0.08%) is not a population that you could draw many confident conclusions from. And it would be ridiculous to make the comparison.

Think about this from the point of view that women around the world admit they don’t bother to report their sexual assaults and rapes. Because they have no confidence that they will get justice AND not be vilified in the process.

What % of females actively reporting their attacks vs current trend of not bothering to report would decimate that 369 figure?

And that number cannot be accurately depicted in this point either;
”About half of all violent victimizations were not reported to police. Transgender people were as likely as cisgender people to report violence to police.”

Sure this 'maybe'. However, I believe the huge number of women telling us they don’t report.

This article is misrepresenting the reality.

I also bring to your attention this as it is relevant to your claim:

”Transgender people are over four times more likely than cisgender people to experience violent victimization, including rape, sexual assault, and aggravated or simple assault”

Including! Notice it says ‘including’!

Not ”Trans people are 4 times more likely to experience violent attacks including rape and sexual assault.”

What was NOT included was a handy breakdown of what constituted the crimes against trans people were. What was the bar for a hate crime being committed for instance? Misogyny? Does that fit the definition that holds for transphobic hate crimes?

And based on 369 people, I am not going to delve into that national dataset to look for it. I don’t have the will. Maybe if you wish to prove your point, you could link to that data with the breakdown of the actual crimes reported for those 369 people. It included 'property victimisations' for instance. It covers a wide range of things.

“One in four transgender women who were victimized thought the incident was a hate crime compared to less than one in ten cisgender women.”

How many females being taught how to accurately assess the motivation against them as to whether it constituted a hate crime, or indeed using the very same frames of reference as trans people do but based on sexism, and then reanswering that same survey would again make that point meaningless? Is misogyny a ‘hate crime’ for instance?

Do people understand the significance of what centuries of oppression of females has done on being able to accurately assess the motivation of crimes against our sex?

I am beginning to. The trans lobby groups are informing my learnings. Because of what they classify as ‘transphobic hate crimes’ when I look at what I have experienced as a female… wow! I sure have overlooked a huge amount of what I just waved away as crap from males.

And that the group who are trans could include many of those reporting abuse that includes misgendering and perceived micro-aggressions. Gosh, imagine if women reported all the hateful things said and done to them on a daily basis.
Crimes that cause harm and pain to anyone should be fully investigated and justice served.

But if a claim such as ”Trans people are 4 times more likely to experience violent attacks including rape and sexual assault.” is going to be made by any institution or poster, it needs to be based on some very robust data.

Agree.

The problem with your analysis is that you take TWAW literally. When all trans women are doing is identifying more with the inclinations socially associated with women than men. No one is suggesting this makes them 'biological' women rather socially more associated in terms of typical inclinations.

Well, in fact a lot of trans-identifying males do claim to be biological women - Beth Uption ring a bell? Claimed this in a tribunal, as a qualified doctor, no less. And India Willoughby is another. Claims to be a biological woman and have a cervix.

But anyway, if the above is true, hoorah, that would suit me very well. TW aren't LITERALLY women, they're just enacting an outdated misogynistic stereotype to be "socially" women in a way that suggests they don't actually know any women, but whatever. Knock yourself out with your sexist delusions, but if you are not LITERALLY a woman, why do you want in female spaces, sports etc?

If we could all agree, as per UK law, that TW are not actually women, and agree you can have whatever gender expression you like (within laws and requirements of basic decency), but sex exists and for safeguarding and fairness reasons the sexes need separate categories in some situations, then IMO "transgender" would make sense and be an accurate description. Deal?