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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
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8
Bluebootsgreenboots · 29/09/2025 17:32

Wow. Finally. Hands over ears for the wailing.

Currentquandry · 29/09/2025 17:35

Thanks for posting this, OP. Massive news indeed. May the tide keep turning.

MarieDeGournay · 29/09/2025 17:39

Not exactly earthshatteringly different though, they still say this:

If a young person in the school says that they now want to live as a boy although their biological sex was female, or they now want to live as a girl, although their biological sex was male, it is important to provide support and listen to what they are saying.
If others deny this, it may have a detrimental impact on the young person’s wellbeing, relationships and behaviour and this is often clearly apparent to teachers, parents and carers.

and refer to 'transgender children' instead of 'gender questioning'

edited to add that they also support their statements about transgender pupils by quoting stats about LGBT pupils, only some of whom will actually be trans. This is a very common trick - quote stats which are actually partially, maybe mostly about homophobia in support of trans rights.

GargoylesofBeelzebub · 29/09/2025 17:59

Also gives this example. 🙄

“I was told I was disgusting and in PE I was forced to change in a disused shower cubicle in case I 'stared at' any of the girls.”- Trans Young Person

Hoardasurass · 29/09/2025 18:33

Well i got as far as the toilet's and changing facilities they state law but then drive a horse and cart through it by giving advice on how to basically get around it by making single sex facilities mixed sex and implying that they should still let boys in the girls facilities and negotiate with the girls who are unhappy.
The whole thing is a shit show I'll come back and say more when my blood pressure has gone down but here's some of the worst parts

massive news :  the Scottish Government has finally updated its toilet advice
massive news :  the Scottish Government has finally updated its toilet advice
massive news :  the Scottish Government has finally updated its toilet advice
massive news :  the Scottish Government has finally updated its toilet advice
FortheloveofPetethePlumber · 29/09/2025 18:38

Well that needs to go straight to the EHRC.

However a boy feels about it, and however staff feel about it, girls cannot be sacrificed to him to make him happy. Girls are not born to be therapeutic support animals for boys. There is no 'right' of males to have girls undress for them.

How at this point people still can't see their own sexism in this is baffling.

FortheloveofPetethePlumber · 29/09/2025 18:39

And this whole idea of harassing girls into submission - and women - because men need them to shut up, take their clothes off and provide their bodies for his use - what the hell is the matter with people that they think this is in someway right or reasonable?

HE has the right to be comfortable. HE has rights. HE has power. Including to force distressed females to humiliate themselves and submit by performatively enacting believing he's a girl.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 29/09/2025 18:47

Im just on the first page:

"These discussions include debate about the impact of meeting transgender people’s needs and the potential impact for women and girls."

So there is an impact on transpeople, but only a potential impact on women and girls Hmm

Hoardasurass · 29/09/2025 18:49

Well jenny gilruth has just refused to say that transpires ie boys cant use the female facilities on the BBC (full interview on BBC Scotland change at 7)🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬

IwantToRetire · 29/09/2025 18:52

Oh no, got over excited by thread headline but now see this is just about schools.

Not that that isn't important but briefly thought it was for more than just schools.

FortheloveofPetethePlumber · 29/09/2025 18:52

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 29/09/2025 18:47

Im just on the first page:

"These discussions include debate about the impact of meeting transgender people’s needs and the potential impact for women and girls."

So there is an impact on transpeople, but only a potential impact on women and girls Hmm

Well it's not like anyone thinks women and girls are actually human.

Despite the fact that you're a good girl to say performatively to soothe male egos that no one knows what sex they are.

TomorrowisThursday · 29/09/2025 18:56

I read it up to the toilets bit and it doesn't seem to say "use must be based on biological sex". The opposite in fact it suggests discussing with "transgender" children which they prefer to use...

Can anyone clarify please?

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 29/09/2025 18:58

I've skimmed the whole thing now. It's appears to have a few grudging sentences regarding the requirements for SS spaces and the definition of sex. Still using all the dodgy stats, recommending poor practice re social transition and signposting to Mermaids...

TomorrowisThursday · 29/09/2025 18:59

I.e some copied...

Recommended practice, following the considerations above includes:

Asking the young person about the facilities that they wish to use and if they have any worries
Respecting the young person's gender identity
Creating a plan with the young person, outlining what can happen and when
Planning discussions should consider:

ensuring appropriate arrangements are made for the provision of, and disposal of, sanitary products
whether there are toilet and changing facilities available within the school which may afford extra privacy, if this is requested
where facilities are limited, and if a young person needs additional privacy, whether they could access a staff facility without compromising their privacy or the privacy of staff members

In fact it seems to require "young person raises a concern regarding sharing facilities with a transgender young person and it is established that they will experience disadvantage as a result, then the school should seek to respect the rights of all. To do this the school should seek to come to an arrangement, to accommodate everyone involved, after discussion and consideration of options available."

Seems to suggest they can use their preferred facilities...

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 29/09/2025 19:00

TomorrowisThursday · 29/09/2025 18:56

I read it up to the toilets bit and it doesn't seem to say "use must be based on biological sex". The opposite in fact it suggests discussing with "transgender" children which they prefer to use...

Can anyone clarify please?

It's easily missed:

"Separate toilet facilities for boys and girls must be provided in schools. Schools are also required to provide accessible facilities for young people with a disability"

"As the law stands, the facilities require to be made available on the basis of biological sex"

Hoardasurass · 29/09/2025 19:02

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 29/09/2025 19:00

It's easily missed:

"Separate toilet facilities for boys and girls must be provided in schools. Schools are also required to provide accessible facilities for young people with a disability"

"As the law stands, the facilities require to be made available on the basis of biological sex"

Yes and all the advice after that is basically how to ignore it

SirEctor · 29/09/2025 19:04

As the law stands (and we really wish it didn't and hope it won't for much longer, but it seems we really can't get out of this...)

It really is very regrettable that women and girls have rights.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 29/09/2025 19:04

Hoardasurass · 29/09/2025 19:02

Yes and all the advice after that is basically how to ignore it

Yep.

A very grudging minor change to the guidance. It's almost as if they didn't really want to the change the guidance, and want to make it as easy as possible to circumvent Hmm

MorrisZapp · 29/09/2025 19:40

Gilruth is a fucking disgrace.

TomorrowisThursday · 29/09/2025 19:57

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 29/09/2025 19:00

It's easily missed:

"Separate toilet facilities for boys and girls must be provided in schools. Schools are also required to provide accessible facilities for young people with a disability"

"As the law stands, the facilities require to be made available on the basis of biological sex"

That's not the same as banning transgender students from their preferred toilets/changing room. Weasle wording.

That doesn't seem to be in the policy; the converse is implied.

Or course it's illogical but that's what's been going on with "same sex" hospital wards.

TomorrowisThursday · 29/09/2025 19:58

So i.e. they can't have unisex toilets for sure. But still seems open to transgender students to use their preferred facilities...

ArabellaSaurus · 29/09/2025 21:15

This is about far more than blooming toilets!

This is the updated Schools Guidance from the Scotgov.

https://x.com/WRNScotland/status/1972707992551252101

'The Scottish Gov’s new transgender pupil guidance (Sep 2025) has been published https://gov.scot/publications/supporting-transgender-pupils-schools-guidance-education-authorities-schools-revised/, but it’s flawed

It still promotes gender ideology
It still defies the law
Ignores evidence
Risks child welfare
Ignores Safeguarding
Here’s why it remains a problem.'

WRN Scotland (@WRNScotland) on X

🧵The Scottish Gov’s new transgender pupil guidance (Sep 2025) has been published https://t.co/LIUiDo7Uuq, but it’s flawed It still promotes gender ideology It still defies the law Ignores evidence Risks child welfare Ignores Safeguarding Here’s w...

https://x.com/WRNScotland/status/1972707992551252101

ArabellaSaurus · 29/09/2025 21:15

MorrisZapp · 29/09/2025 19:40

Gilruth is a fucking disgrace.

She always has a look like she's acting the part of a baddie in a film.

ArabellaSaurus · 29/09/2025 21:18

WRN thread in full:

'The Guidance does refer to UK Supreme Court (sex = bio sex) but it still lets children and young people self-ID as the opposite "gender" It lets boys use girls’ spaces like changing rooms etc. This violates the Equality Act & girls’ rights to dignity privacy & safety.

There is no evidence for “Transgender" children and young people The guidance assumes they can be “trans” it ignores evidence from the Cass Review which says gender distress in children & young people is often linked to autism trauma etc Labelling children and young people as “trans” risks locking them into a path to medical harm

It still pushes social transition it encourages name/pronoun changes as young as primary school. Cass warned this can cement identity children may outgrow, raising distress & medicalisation risks. Guidance ignores this, still using biased stories like "I Am Jazz" as reference points

It continues to undermine parents It says it involves parents but lets children and young people block info-sharing This pits schools against families, risks labelling parents & could lead to child protection overreach but ultimately it encourages the lack of a safeguarding approach

It creates frees speech & safeguarding risks. It allows staff to hide a child’s sex to avoid “outing.” This clashes with safeguarding & Equality Act transparency. This creates a culture of lies in schools and the wider community and requires everyone to comply. Failure to maintain the lie could lead to sanctions for children parents & teachers

It still relies on biased Sources It relies on groups like Mermaids & LGBT Youth Scotland, with histories of safeguarding issues. It still uses biased stories like I Am Jazz as reference points Ignores Cass’s call for evidence-based approaches. It continues to promote an ideology

This Guidance continues to push unproven affirmation over law, evidence, & children & young people's well-being. It continues to promote confusion, & harm. The guidance should be withdrawn it is not fit for purpose'