Well, hello Emma Watson

[crumpet]

www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-15130209/Harry-Potter-Emma-Watson-treasures-J-K-Rowling-trans-rights.html

Men can never be in female spaces, regardless of how they identify. When they enter such a space it is no longer a female space.

Are you trying to argue that sex does not exist? How do you think we reproduce?

I am genuinely surprised.

Nothing confuses me - I understand your opinion/ logic as you recount it here entirely. I also disagree with it entirely.

You seem to be confused at the idea that not everyone shares your opinion/ logic... Why is that? Why is it so impossible for you to even accept that some people have a different perspective on this subject to you?

No 'trans people' are being excluded.

Because womens sex based rights are based on SEX. A transwoman is a male. Therefore, they need to be legally excluded from female SEX based spaces.

Again, you don't get to muddy the waters by calling males 'trans people'. They are still male. And therefore, are legally not allowed to enter female single SEX spaces.

If they get 'upset' it's only because they know that re-badging themselves as 'trans person' doesn't change the fact they are M.A.L.E male.

The issue is not 'trans people'. The issue is male vs female.

But transwomen are male, why do you think they belong in spaces reserved for females?

How do you think humans reproduce if sex does not exist?

Forgot no. I’m asking you why you seem confused as to why women are excluding trans identified males from female spaces. Surely you’re not that dim as to think males with a trans identity should be in female spaces. The clue is in the words male and female. They are different things. We learn this in primary school. Did you skip that part?

They don't. Nobody is fooled by it, including themselves. But some of them invested so much of themselves into thinking this made them superior people that they can't climb down because their egos don't permit it, while others do just think women have a moral duty to shut up and submit when men want something, and the damage and losses they sustain as a result are the cost of freedom.

I think Emma is making quite a reasonable statement.

It's cowardly. They think re-naming a male to 'trans person' will make a difference. It won't. A wolf in sheep's clothing is still a wolf. A male with a cock and ball sack is still a male. Even if you call him a 'transwoman'.

It is male vs female. That's it. Nothing else.

Very insightful.

She needs to do some more self reflection, away from the public eye.

There's bugger all honesty in the privileged TWAW bubble, which is why they flail about not knowing what's up - when everything is performative and nothing is informed by reality, it must be hard to have no solid ground beneath your feet.

However you justify it, and whatever the logic is, the factual result is the same.

You are advocating for the exclusion of trans women from women's toilets. That is what people are upset about - the exclusion of trans women from using women's toilets, not the idea that women's toilets should exist.

You think these two things are logically impossible:

1. The inclusion of trans women in the use of women's toilets
2. The existence of women's toilets.

You think 1 cancels out 2. I do not. You see 1 and 2 as mutually opposing/ exclusive. I do not.

That is where we disagree.

Tandora will now accuse you of dehumanising reducing people to their sexual organs and reproductive ability. Because she does not understand that categories do not reduce anyone to anything, they simply find the common trait shared by everyone in that category and nobody outside of that category. There is plenty of diversity among women but their shared trait is that they are all female, and no man is female.

Then have your third space, additional unisex toilets and congratulate yourself for undressing and urinating among men, and let the rest of us who don't subscribe to your religion have the normal and legal spaces we need in order to be included in society. If you actually cared about inclusion, you'd be for adding options, not removing them.

Never heard of this Laurie Penny person. Had to google. Wikipedia informs me:

Penny came out as genderqueer, pansexual and polyamorous in 2015.

Dear Lord, how tedious.

I am advocating for the exclusion of MALES from FEMALE toilets.

A male with a cock and balls in a dress is a male. That he pretends to be 'transwoman' doesn't change the fact he is male.

Female facilities are based on SEX. Not 'identity'. Therefore, all males, regardless of their identity, must stay out of FEMALE spaces.

How hard is that for you to understand?
That putting a fully intact male in female spaces, breaches female HUMAN RIGHTS, and the law? And you advocate for the breach of the female human rights.

Explain to me, in your own words, how including a male in FEMALE spaces, does not cancel out keeping female spaces female only?

So how can it be a woman’s toilet if it’s allowing men in? Surely then it would be a mixed sex toilet. So all men can come in. I mean, you can’t exclude some men and include others. That’s discrimination. So you would effectively have no women’s toilet. And males with a trabs identity would be required to share toilets with the very men they claim to be afraid of. So it’d be a bit of an own goal wouldn’t it?

It seems hugely significant to hear this coming from Watson.

The arts have been lost, and have shown few signs of returning to sanity - this is very heartening, if slightly uncomfortable to watch. The most fervent adherents are the ones with the most to lose.

Funny how he is ignoring my question 🤔

Penny claims to be a feminist. Look into her response re the Wiki Spa; its enlightening. She said girls faced with a naked erect penis in their spaces should nit be rude and look away, to paraphrase.

@Tandora Explain to me, in your own words, how including a male in FEMALE spaces, does not cancel out keeping female spaces female only?

@ThatCyanCat

"others do just think women have a moral duty to shut up and submit when men want something, and the damage and losses they sustain as a result are the cost of freedom."
Yes. Spot on. It's an unwritten rule. Many of the people who believe that are "feminists" of the women-are-men-with-tits persuasion. They are shocked by other women reneging on the "contract".

I don't know Tandora, why are you still pretending that the inclusion of trans identifying men in women's spaces doesn't have a negative impact on women?

How hard is that for you to understand?

Again, I am very familiar with your arguments, and they are not at all hard to understand.

I entirely disagree with them.

It is possible for someone to both understand an argument and also to disagree with it.

Are you able to acknowledge this?

because I don't believe that it does. This is not a pretence, it is my sincerely held opinion, based on reason, judgement and evidence.