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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Shon Faye - 'well, it's over' - a brief eulogy for the "trans rights" movement.

181 replies

CassOle · 19/09/2025 20:37

https://shonfaye.substack.com/p/well-its-over

Shon does not understand why the 'trans rights' movement got pushback.

OP posts:
Ereshkigalangcleg · 19/09/2025 21:27

eatfigs · 19/09/2025 21:23

I do think that, in the UK context, the all-encompassing focus on the Gender Recognition Act reform from 2017 to 2020 was a grave mistake.

I think he can now see clearly where it all started to go downhill for his activist movement. He and many other men like him were taken by surprise at the tenacity and determination and wisdom and collaboration of so many women to oppose this. Much of it based here on Mumsnet of course!

In the UK, we – transsexuals - are about to become significantly less employable as a class. Especially trans women. The segregation law and reduced access to medical care have rendered us ‘undesirables’ and this will affect how we make money to survive.

I think he's right to be worried about this. It's about to swing way too far in the other direction. Being unemployable and actively discriminated against in society is not a good place to be.

He took the piss out of Mumsnet at his little stand up comedy shindigs. Whatevs, Shon.

murasaki · 19/09/2025 21:27

Ereshkigalangcleg · 19/09/2025 21:25

No that was an anon account. He did used to write for the Guardian though.

Show quote history

Fair enough, I'm sure I remember reading something unpleasant by him, but clearly not that one. Either way, oh dear, how sad, what a shame etc....

Ereshkigalangcleg · 19/09/2025 21:28

finallygettingit · 19/09/2025 21:18

class based analysis eh? eh?

I'd be interested to know what alternative occupation he has trained for

He’s a trained lawyer I think, but unlike RMW and Maugham he obviously doesn’t hold out much hope of using his legal skillz to save the day.

LadyBracknellsHandbagg · 19/09/2025 21:31

SidewaysOtter · 19/09/2025 21:17

Translation: the grift is over and I don't like it. The nasty wims made sure that reality reasserted itself and I DON'T LIKE IT.

Sad, sad times.

SirEctor · 19/09/2025 21:32

murasaki · 19/09/2025 21:22

Wasn't it him who wrote about shopping for underwear and enjoying making women staff feel uncomfortable?

He was more in the pseduo intellectual wing of the movement. He's the one who said women are a "loose, shifting constellation of biological, political and cultural phenomena which varies according to context, place & time". Which is a convenient definition if you're not actually a woman but would like to tell people you are.

LadyBracknellsHandbagg · 19/09/2025 21:34

eatfigs · 19/09/2025 21:23

I do think that, in the UK context, the all-encompassing focus on the Gender Recognition Act reform from 2017 to 2020 was a grave mistake.

I think he can now see clearly where it all started to go downhill for his activist movement. He and many other men like him were taken by surprise at the tenacity and determination and wisdom and collaboration of so many women to oppose this. Much of it based here on Mumsnet of course!

In the UK, we – transsexuals - are about to become significantly less employable as a class. Especially trans women. The segregation law and reduced access to medical care have rendered us ‘undesirables’ and this will affect how we make money to survive.

I think he's right to be worried about this. It's about to swing way too far in the other direction. Being unemployable and actively discriminated against in society is not a good place to be.

‘Being unemployable and actively discriminated against in society is not a good place to be.’

I think this is an example of FAFO. Shon didn’t give two shits about the women to whom this happened.

Helleofabore · 19/09/2025 21:35

“I worked at Stonewall in those precise years myself – largely because it was one of the few places I felt I could work – and even at the time could sense this liberal priority of legal recognition was only entrenching the authority of the state and of capricious politicians. But my trans colleagues (all in relatively junior roles - trans women never occupied significant influence at Stonewall) also did genuinely good work in NHS stakeholder groups on healthcare access and with schools. It was a job.”

Such admissions….

LadyBracknellsHandbagg · 19/09/2025 21:36

He’s really saying the quiet part out loud isn’t he?

OldCrone · 19/09/2025 21:40

Ereshkigalangcleg · 19/09/2025 21:28

He’s a trained lawyer I think, but unlike RMW and Maugham he obviously doesn’t hold out much hope of using his legal skillz to save the day.

Show quote history

He wrote this for the Guardian in 2014.

Men in makeup: lawyer by day, glamour puss by night | Makeup | The Guardian

https://archive.ph/vSP0c

Although it says lawyer in the title, in the article he talks about working in financial services.

KilkennyCats · 19/09/2025 21:40

SirEctor · 19/09/2025 21:32

He was more in the pseduo intellectual wing of the movement. He's the one who said women are a "loose, shifting constellation of biological, political and cultural phenomena which varies according to context, place & time". Which is a convenient definition if you're not actually a woman but would like to tell people you are.

Show quote history

Jesus Christ.
How did they get anyone to swallow this shite?

Helleofabore · 19/09/2025 21:41

”I am broadly in agreement with recent observations made by the formidable Jules Gill-Peterson in this respect about the need to restore the centrality of class-based analysis to transsexual politics: transitioning medically makes you significantly poorer and any trans politics should start there.”

Imagine that! Imagine that paying for extreme body modifications that are purely elective leaves someone poorer!

And that this personal choice of expenditure should be considered as part of these group’s oppression. All based on their philosophical belief about themselves that doesn’t reflect material reality. Remarkable.

Helleofabore · 19/09/2025 21:42

LadyBracknellsHandbagg · 19/09/2025 21:36

He’s really saying the quiet part out loud isn’t he?

Such clarity is welcome.

Original poster
CassOle · 19/09/2025 21:45

eatfigs · 19/09/2025 21:23

I do think that, in the UK context, the all-encompassing focus on the Gender Recognition Act reform from 2017 to 2020 was a grave mistake.

I think he can now see clearly where it all started to go downhill for his activist movement. He and many other men like him were taken by surprise at the tenacity and determination and wisdom and collaboration of so many women to oppose this. Much of it based here on Mumsnet of course!

In the UK, we – transsexuals - are about to become significantly less employable as a class. Especially trans women. The segregation law and reduced access to medical care have rendered us ‘undesirables’ and this will affect how we make money to survive.

I think he's right to be worried about this. It's about to swing way too far in the other direction. Being unemployable and actively discriminated against in society is not a good place to be.

'The segregation law' = using the correct single-sex facilities for your sex, or unisex facilities - just like everyone else.

'Reduced access to medical care' = (hopefully) a return to evidence-based medicine - which is the gold standard. Calling body modification 'medical care' is a big stretch.

OP posts:
ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 19/09/2025 21:46

Didn't Jolyon make a rather disturbing quip about sliding into his DMS?

murasaki · 19/09/2025 21:47

CassOle · 19/09/2025 21:45

'The segregation law' = using the correct single-sex facilities for your sex, or unisex facilities - just like everyone else.

'Reduced access to medical care' = (hopefully) a return to evidence-based medicine - which is the gold standard. Calling body modification 'medical care' is a big stretch.

Show quote history

Quite. It's like me claiming that dyeing my hair is medical care as it makes me feel less sad about going grey. Total bollocks.

SinnerBoy · 19/09/2025 21:49

Oh dear, the poor lamb is sad because he and his are no longer fashionable. Bless his undersized wooden heart.

SidewaysOtter · 19/09/2025 21:49

eatfigs · 19/09/2025 21:34

The most telling comment there is the “Shon did a thing at Glastonbury” post where he had no answers for someone who was trying to navigate the real world.

Because the ideology doesn’t stand up to any scrutiny, not even “How do I deal with trying to present as female when my colleagues know I’m not?”, and they know it. They just don’t want to admit it or accept it, hence the Special Bubbles which are now popping left, right and centre.

#SadTimes indeed.

lifeturnsonadime · 19/09/2025 21:51

So he is admitting the gig is up? Interesting.

Bannedontherun · 19/09/2025 21:53

Oh my goodness i am having a most delicious moment of sheer joy having read his piece, what a spiteful TERF i am.

happy days

eatfigs · 19/09/2025 21:55

CassOle · 19/09/2025 21:45

'The segregation law' = using the correct single-sex facilities for your sex, or unisex facilities - just like everyone else.

'Reduced access to medical care' = (hopefully) a return to evidence-based medicine - which is the gold standard. Calling body modification 'medical care' is a big stretch.

Show quote history

Agreed but I think he's right about them becoming less employable and treated with suspicion.

BettyFilous · 19/09/2025 21:55

GargoylesofBeelzebub · 19/09/2025 20:38

Well there’s only one thing to say to Shon. “Enjoy your erasure.” Couldn’t have happened to a nicer chap. 🤭🤭

In case any new posters swing by and think we’re being unduly harsh, this was Shon Faye’s response when someone tried to point out the impact of self-ID on women on Twitter several years ago. I can guarantee someone here kept a copy of the tweet. Hence the lack of sympathy for Shon.

KuchKuchHota · 19/09/2025 21:57

He’s lamenting the loss of his grifting, those Halcyon days when organisations fell over themselves to prostrate themselves at the altar of all things trans.

Maybe he will turn to “sex work” now.

MorrisZapp · 19/09/2025 22:01

Wasn't he asked what advice he'd give to trans youth, and replied 'have sex, get tits early'?

I don't hate many people in this world but christ I hate that guy.

LadyBracknellsHandbagg · 19/09/2025 22:01

eatfigs · 19/09/2025 21:55

Agreed but I think he's right about them becoming less employable and treated with suspicion.

Show quote history

Not sure I have any fucks left to give.