Men in women’s groups.

[gingangirly]

Really unsure if I’m being unreasonable, but what do others think?

I belong to a FB group for women over 65 in my town. They have lots of get togethers, at least a couple a week. A few months ago there was a vote after a man requested to join. The overwhelming majority said no. If they want a similar group, start their own. Fair enough.

However there is a trans woman that has been welcomed with open arms. He would NOT pass as a woman, not quite a bloke in a wig but certainly you would know he was trans.

What do people think about this? Acceptable or not? I’m am totally the ‘live and let live’ but seems a bit disingenuous to ban men but not trans women?

But it's a man. So you're saying you have no problems with a man (and a man in every single way) joining a womens group. That is in effect, what you are saying.

You just said it - I have no problem with a man joining a womens group.

But in both situations, they are both men. You can't object to one man, and not the other man.

Your whole premise is that it depends on the men 'feelz'. A narcissistic man's fetish should not be taken into account.

So do you believe Rachel Dolezal should be allowed to join an African American group?

Yes or no?

His 'feelings' are irrelevant. I couldn't give a fck about his feelings. He is a man. Full stop. That's it.

Is Rachel Dolezal an African American? Does she have the right to join the NAACP? Yes or no?

I'm not sexist 🤣

I've no idea, you guys look way too much into things. I like what I like, dislike what I dislike, feel the way I do, I dont need to explain it in great depth. It's quite bizarre that you cant accept this.

I would have a massive problem with this.

In the U.K. at least men are not legally entitled to be in single sex women’s spaces. And a transwoman is a man.

So you either admit all men or none.

The man you declined has been discriminated against.

If the biological reality of “woman” means nothing, how are you going to provide me a safe space for counselling as is allowed under the exemption in the Equality Act so that I can mentally try to process things as I recover from from a very violent rape and sexual assault?

Well, according to the vagina brain peoples, it's not sexist to expect all card carry vagina holders to think exactly the same.

Go figure.. 🤪

Because I would find it strange that a 'normal' man would want to join a female only group and therefore be saying 'yes I am female' when he isnt trans. He can set up his only group or join a male or mixed sex group. And before anyone says anything yes I am aware a trans woman is not a biological woman! But I personally wouldnt have a problem with them joining the woman's group.

I know that. I would still be happy to accept them. It doesnt matter how many times people disagree with me, it doesnt change how I feel on the subject. You cant force everyone to feel the same as you.

How do you know the difference between a “normal” man and the other class of man who are joining for nefarious purposes? Or more to the point, what about the women who his act of joining excludes? From a women’s group? Like me - I wouldn’t be comfortable in that online space. Because men overstep and before you’d know it women would be drifting off because the man has to be front and centre and setting the rules.

Well in this case no, it's about my feelings. That's what you disagree with.

It’s not about me forcing you to agree with me.

It’s about expecting people to - whether they be men or women - obey the law as clarified by the SC in April.

do you usually talk about obeying the law in terms of being forced to feel the same as others? Or do you just obey the law?

Oh bloody hell, I’m dreading this happening.

They need to be told they’ve already “let a man in” so in order not to be discriminatory against other men, they need to let anyone in from now on.

I’m in a women’s walking group and the leader posts on local fb pages. There’s a young man who is clearly “transitioning” who keeps commenting and I’m just waiting for him to turn up one week 🙄

Oh yeah men. What percentage of the male population is trans?

Yes I can. I can see the difference between a man and a trans woman.

Why does it matter what percentage? They are all men.

There is ZERO difference between a man and a transwoman. They are both MEN.

The law disagrees with you.

why are you so happy to break this particular law and what makes this law so special that you’re ok with breaking it?

what other protected characteristics in the Equality Act are you happy to ignore?

I'm talking about a friendship group. That's all I'm talking about. I dont have a problem with it. Get over it!

So would you have a problem with Rachel Dolezal joining a blacks only friendship group?

Any stranger that you allow into a group you dont know what they are like or how they would behave. I dont single out trans people for bad behaviour. Anyone can be an arsehole. I am one voice within that group. If the majority vote against it I would go along with that decision, but i personally wouldnt have a problem allowing a trans woman in.

I don't get it. Was the transwoman joining put to a vote too? And everyone voted yes, which would include you op? If so why are you here?

If it was not put to a vote, why are all those who voted no before quiet now? At least ask for a vote? Or question the organisers on their inconsistency?

Maybe I've missed bits of the thread?

The question isn't on the transwoman. it's on the people who do the gate keeping...

No.

I won’t be getting over it. Probably not ever. Even with fuckton of counselling.

He stalked me. Tailed me home from the pub.

Waited til I’d got in the house and locked the door and the woman across the road I’d been out with had gone into her house and her lights were out.

He knocked my door. I looked out. Didn’t open the door.

He broke through the door. Grabbed me as I tried to get away and strangled me til I passed out.

When I woke I’d wet myself and he was pulling my trousers down. I can't wear elastic waist trousers anymore.

He raped me. Holding me down by the throat the whole time. He also orally raped me. I can still remember thinking I was going to die. And sometimes I wish he had killed me because it’s hard to keep going.

The LAW allows me protections. And MEN are determined to take those away from me. By stealth. Not by campaigning for a change in law. But by forcing their way in where they’re NOT ALLOWED by law.

see the parallel?

So. No.

And again for the hard of hearing at the back. I say NO. And NO. I won’t “Get over it!”