NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #52

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence was 29 July 2025. It resumed again over 1 to 2 September for closing submissions.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February 2025. Sandie Peggie returned to give more evidence on 29 July 2025.

Access to view the second part of the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:
drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #50 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 51: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5402652-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-51 1 September 2025 to 2 September 2025

NC CE reminds me to say 'or within the next few day's
J - I cant because I won't be here

Apologies for the delay. DH brought me flowers for our anniversary.

With regard to Bailey, yes the bundle was available online, but only during the tribunal, we were not allowed to download it.

Judge taking five minutes to think

One of the consequences of this court case being on ice indefinitely is that in the meantime women across the country will still be forced to share because we have various government bodies dragging their feet on the SC ruling deliberately.

It keeps all those subsequent claims by women out of court too.

Meanwhile the EHRC have just started issuing threats and that's it. They will take years to be seen through to conclusion and bodies held to account.

This demonstrates well why it's in the interests of the defendant to stall...

...I think we might start to see this pattern because they literally have no other arguments and this is a form of punishment in its own right.

I think she is trying to demonstrate that the line of least resistance is not just allowing Fife to amend its case - that doing so will open up a can of worms.

However, I suspect he feels that he is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't, so he just wants to make sure that he has followed correct procedure, even if that means delaying the decision.

How stressful for SP. And how ridiculous that JR can just keep saying "and another thing" and there doesn't seem to be any consequence for her doing so.

From TT

JR - it's in both parties interest that you deliberate properly, that is consistent with the overriding objective of delivering justice. It is inconsistent with that to suggest that you shoot from the hip or 'good enough'.

The suggestion of a full rehearing is not a realistic consequence of your proper deliberation. On the suggestion of further amendments, I'm going to give that some thought but they are not a given.

NC - we need to be clear that no objectional manifestation defence is raised, but it may be that JR needs to take instructions on

JR - yes, I will need to take instructions.

J - give me 5 minutes to have a think about this. Court rises.

'Stay where you are, or leave'. Judge a bit snippy there. JR has chosen to leave along with all her team.

Big Sond has gone to scream into the void in private.

Also it almost feels like it's an attempt to destroy Sandy further and to get her to drop the case at the last minute by saying they are going to subject her to yet more.

If they do go down this route then it will be yet more unfair treatment.

More so if the ruling turns out to be utterly damning.

I would like to think that the Judge/Panel is shrewd enough to see that this is just another delaying tactic by the R's to prolong the punishment.

There are 7 ppl waiting in the lobby of room 4, in case this is helpful to anyone who may be thinking of ringing them to ask to be let back in. I daren't say anything in the chat it is already quite full with comments about sound being on and off at inappropriate times!

I had a computer disaster and am stuck on WFTCHTJ. Can't face phoning them, will hope it gets fixed...ETA ah back!

Thanks, I've been trying to figure out where this all came from!

This is a most wicked version of the punishment is the process.

Sandie told a man he shouldn't be in the women's changing room.

That's it.

That's all she fucking did.

In my imagination he has a sort of sound deadened dumb waiter in his office wall that he slides open, shoves his head into and screams the pain away.

The doors are oak, there are some nice brass handles on the doors, they slide sideways.

Maybe the doors have a cutout so he can close them around his neck to further reduce sound leakage

@Boiledbeetle Yes. I am finding it terrifying, as I couldn't have used that changing room with a bloke in it either. It's about silencing GC women, and it seems trying to make us get our kit off in front of any bloke who wants to be there ie the removal of all human rights for women.
Degrading and abusive.

Panel back

Judge talking

Judge not deciding today from the sounds of it.

Can anyone summarise what JR's amendment is? I can't really follow what's new in it.

I'm not sure even JR can.

As an employer, this is astonishing though. September must be one of the most testing times of year for a teaching hospital, with so many trainee staff at the earliest point in their clinical training. Everyone will be already distracted by the case, and all the relevant senior people will be made anxious by the prospect of a further appointment on the stand. What an absolute shitshow.

@CinnamonCinnabar
Jane Russell is attempting to introduce new pleading - a “Bananarama” defence: it’s not what you said it’s the way that you said it - arguing that NHS Fifes conduct was justified because Sandie Peggie manifested her GC belief in an objectionable manner.(as per Michael Foran)