NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #52

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence was 29 July 2025. It resumed again over 1 to 2 September for closing submissions.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February 2025. Sandie Peggie returned to give more evidence on 29 July 2025.

Access to view the second part of the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:
drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #50 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 51: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5402652-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-51 1 September 2025 to 2 September 2025

Won't Fife face problematic questions over why they took no action over allegedly racist comments but were happy to steamroller Peggie over a changing room discussion?

Judge batting away NC requests

From TT

Judge and Panel have returned, we are waiting for NC to return.

NC returns.

NC - I do apologise. I misremembered 1:30. What I wanted to come back to you on after lunch is the simple question of timing. SP is off work with stress, this application has caused her further stress and anxiety and she was in tears today because of the prospect

And it would also mean that the EDI/DEI regime at the hospital was so lax that a staff member could use a racial slur against a colleague, and nothing was done about it.

Judge is adamant no one is making him decide today

From TT

of having to come back and give evidence. And she's been off on holiday and it was not the opportunity to recover that she was hoping for. Can I ask that you adjourn and consider the application, and decide today.

J - we do not have time to that today, to do this point justice

You miss my point. In 2040 when Big Sond #2 is rehearing the case we are no longer in the ECHR jurisdiction as we left in 2032.

From TT

it needs additional time.

NC - can I finish my reasons

J - if I could do it, I would do so. If I am confident I can take a decision, I will do so, There's a reason for me to say so.

NC - I want to argue that there are countervailing reasons for why you should try to make a

Never let a good argument and logic get in the way of NHS Fife and Co.

NC is arguing with the judge that he should wrap it up today - brave move😨

From TT

decision today.

NC - if you adjourned and made a decision today, it's a minor disruption and you have already said that you will questions in writing. That allows for all parties to know your decision. If the application is allowed, we would want to get to the EAT before

I hate these bits, she has to do her job but you can hear annoyance creeping in from the judge.

I presume as professionals none of them take it personally

@RedToothBrush Ah right. I examined that prospect in my head and decided to play a JR and ignore it.

From TT

your deliberation days. So, if the answer is no, then the disruption is minor. If the answer is yes, that would allow C to get an expedited answer from the EAT, possibly get an answer before your deliberation days. Other alternatives are very much worse and substantially

From TT

prejudicial to C and an infringement of her Art 6 rights. If you don't decide today but after your holiday, written subs would have to be written blind, any appeal would not be able to be dealt with before deliberation dates. And if the application appeal was then successful

Full rehearing

Steady on NC

Also the atmosphere of 'you must accept the presence of biological men within the female sss changing room' that was handed down by NHS Fife management will tend to lead to growing pressure cooker of resentfulness

SP clearly had been trying for some time to get here viewpoint understood and made acted upon by management. Her concerns had been ignored by seniors.

In a similar position I am not sure that I would have been as calm as SP - she tried to talk it out with DU.

Perhaps level of calm was necessary because DU is a man, much taller, more muscular and of a sex more prone to violence.

from herald
1:26pm
We're back.
Naomi Cunningham, for Ms Peggie, warned the tribunal that if it allows NHS Fife to amend its case at this stage it will cause “very great disruption”.
She said the respondents had left it until “the last possible moment” to raise the issue of so-called “objectionable manifestation” — claims about the way Ms Peggie expressed her beliefs.
Ms Cunningham urged him to decide today so both sides would know the parameters before closing submissions conclude, and said that if the tribunal allowed NHS Fife’s late amendment, they would likely seek an expedited appeal to the Employment Appeal Tribunal before deliberations begin in October.

She's giving the judge an out. Decide now and if the application is allowed, the issue will get kicked upstairs because we'll go to the EAT.

NC knows she's lost this point. But she's laying out why the inevitable decision of the judge will be extremely prejudicial against the claimant and the fault lies with the respondent.

It's about freedom of movement in what comes next.

Poor Sandie 🙁

NC I am asking you to do it today

JR - do what you like judge simper simper

Very frustrating I'm still WFTCHTJ after going to get some lunch...

From TT

would undermine the entire decision because it is so entangled with the pleadings. So all of this it might lead to a full re-hearing of this long and difficult tribunal. The ET is supposed to be 'good enough' and can be done less formally, the consequence of delaying your judgment beyond today are significantly prejudicial to the C and wholly brought on her by the neglect and delay of the Rs and should not visited on her by them.

I note that the Rs have moved to amend the 2ndRs response. They may wish to amend their amended application.

Finally, 1 factual correction, the 'manifestation' defence may have been run in Bailley without pleading, but that is not apparent, it may have been in case management hearings. CE reminds me to say 'or within the next few day's

J - I cant because I won't be here.