NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #52

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence was 29 July 2025. It resumed again over 1 to 2 September for closing submissions.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February 2025. Sandie Peggie returned to give more evidence on 29 July 2025.

Access to view the second part of the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:
drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #50 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 51: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5402652-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-51 1 September 2025 to 2 September 2025

You are all too kind. I have to say it was a pleasure to serve the threads. As @MyrtleLion noticed, it's a wee bit of fiddly work to crosspost the info from x/nitter. I saw some good tips upthread about using notepad as an intermediate step, I'll try that in the future.

AIBU to be a bit pleased at how Big Sond has caught on?

Someone upthread asked if there was evidence a settlement had been offered and declined.

I thought that was implied by NHS Fife in at least one edit of the FridayPressRelease_v1.2.8_Final_FINAL_FINAL.PDF

However maybe I was mistaken. The relevant paragraph is this
Why is NHS Fife continuing the tribunal case? Why not simply drop the action?NHS Fife did not initiate the ongoing tribunal proceedings and is instead one of two ‘respondents’ being sued. NHS Fife cannot unilaterally stop proceedings.The health board is not pursuing any legal action against the claimant - it is instead defending itself, as it is required to do. The legal case concerns a range of different claims and allegations, against NHS Fife and its staff, including in relation to the claimant’s suspension, the investigation, and other matters allegedly said or done.https://www.nhsfife.org/news-updates/latest-news/2025/07/statement-on-the-recommencement-of-the-employment-tribunal/

We are not being too kind at all. You played an absolute blinder and, when Netflix produces the mini series, The Fifer will be delivering an aside to camera about every 30 seconds.

@BezMills Well hello you.

Thing is with judges it is not always easy to tell why they do and say what they do. There may be good reason why he gave the respondents such latitude, i am prone to think “give them enough rope” might be the case here.

i thought his line of questioning to JR was quite telling. The fact she evaded answering…. Was rather good in my opinion.

Hopefully this will make other witch finders consider the repercussions before embarking on a campaign

It's a difficult tightrope JR has walked, balancing the interests of multiple often batshit clients here. Her own fault she's had to walk it, since nobody made her take on two clients where there was at the very least a significant risk of a COI arising. But for all the legitimate criticisms of her, that part has been adeptly done.

I think Netflix are woke, otherwise it would be ideal for one of those 'trainwreck' stories. Are there any streaming platforms that aren't woke who might pick up the story? and any actors who aren't too woke to do it either?
I doubt there'll ever be a series on it, and there so badly needs to be!

I agree with @Bannedontherun . He doesn’t want the respondents to be able to appeal on the grounds he didn’t agree with their motions. So he has to properly consider the application to change the defence. I believe, because he will do it at the beginning of the deliberations period, that he will deny their amendment, but he will do it with properly sourced legal backing.

I also think he was asking some questions to ensure that proper every day explanations were vocalised to the lay members of the panel and to the press and public, though I am concerned he thinks DU has had surgery, which I don’t think is the case. He might have had hormones as his face is quite softened.

I have now read half of the Final Submission, up to the issues. Took about three hours.

I previously said that I thought DU had been told by Fife he could use the women’s facilities, but it is clear from the submission that he was using the women’s changing room as his own decision from day one, and that he was never instructed to use them by Fife. They just acknowledged that he was using female CR.

They had no policies and just let him, so they are also culpable, but he should be found to have done this of his own volition.

Yes, he said he'd done it in his previous placement, and they just went ok then. So he told them that's what he'd be doing rather than the other way round. But they didn't bat an eyelid at that.

Well we have a new crt case/judicial review coming curtesy of the flagrant lynsey (yes the 1 who allegedly threatened to arrest nc and the judge) screenshot and link below
https://x.com/WingsScotland/status/1963284498763632962

I don’t think it’s about being a litigant in person, I think it’s about “deadnaming” and “misgendering”, also known as “correctly sexing”, are not actual offences.

That should be a laugh.

I believe this is the same person who tried to argue that NC should be barred from representing SP as doing so is a conflict of interest. I would rate his understanding of the law to be about on a level with my Morkie. He isn't being ignored because he is an LIP. He is being ignored because he doesn't have even the beginnings of an arguable case.

Ssh you'll spoil his mantrum over being told no not once but twice and we won't get the massive mantrum when hes told no (and to fuck off) for 3rd time

@Hoardasurass Well that should increase the prospect of being declared a vexatious litigant.

A VL person - very loony

Judicial Review of the entire legal system - how many threads will that be?

None it will be thrown out

Someone else can do those.

I wonder if Big Sond, in his bathroom breaks, ever looked doon and wondered if he was male or female

😁

He should check his chromosomes!

Ohh ohh I know this one.

Yes he must do that because sex is extremely complex and unknowable and so no-one can have any idea what sex they are, unless they are trans in which case not only will they know what sex they are they will also know that at the same time as very much being that sex they are somehow in some unmentionable way also not that sex hence the need to transition.
As big Sond hasn't broadcast his transness to the world (whilst simultaneously declaring that the worst thing that could happen ever is to be 'outted') he must not be trans therefore he can't know what sex he is so he must sometimes wonder.

The aim, I think, is to use this case to change institutional and systemic bias and failings so that individuals won’t have to face this sort of treatment in future. To do that they have to push all the way and bring the law to bear on individuals too. That’s why Sandie Peggie is a hero. This is for everyone, not just for her and in my view that is feminism at its best.

The aim, I think, is to use this case to change institutional and systemic bias and failings so that individuals won’t have to face this sort of treatment in future. To do that they have to push all the way and bring the law to bear on individuals too. That’s why Sandie Peggie is a hero. This is for everyone, not just for her and in my view that is feminism at its best.