NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #52

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence was 29 July 2025. It resumed again over 1 to 2 September for closing submissions.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February 2025. Sandie Peggie returned to give more evidence on 29 July 2025.

Access to view the second part of the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:
drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #50 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 51: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5402652-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-51 1 September 2025 to 2 September 2025

Without knowing what insurance is in place, the terms of that insurance and the nature of any agreements/contracts between Fife and the individuals, it is impossible to say. But I agree that there is only a small possibility that they will be personally liable.

That's what I thought, but the wording interests me. The question they ask is 'why does NHS FIFE not simply drop the action?' The question I think people were interested in is 'Why is NHS FIFE not reaching a settlement with the claimant given the Supreme Court outcome and the fact that the complaints were not upheld?"

The magic is in the wording, as it so often is in dealing with Government funded organisations. This was the point when they could have shut it down without losing face because they could have said 'we acted in good faith. Now we know our interpretation of the law was wrong, that Ms Peggie is a long standing employee etc, etc, etc.

They didn't, even when costs were rising, and they must have been aware they were on shaky ground after investigating. That suggests to me that someone high up in the organisation was committed to what I can only call a pyrrhic defeat that would deter most people from ever complaining again. I'd rather like to know the name of that person, and then I'd happily contribute to the crowd funder to do something as nasty as the law allows to them.

In my view if Sandie Peggie would have been willing to settle she'd have required NHS Fife to express a disavowal of gender identity ideology and they were willing to do anything except that, whether that was costing the NHS a fortune, bringing on a PR disaster, discrediting everyone involved, etc.

Now that makes perfect sense, thanks. Motto of this should be 'Don't push a Peggie, a Cunningham, or an Elves.' I wonder what she'll do next, given that so many of the very best campaigners seem to have got to a point where they said 'enough is enough.' I'd like to think she gets a good settlement to cover the ending of her career and spends a year or so walking her dog and getting her head and health in a good place before she comes out like a terrier.

Place mark

I feel it's a good thing that NHS Fife and Upton didn't just roll over. From the evidence we have seen they have been scoring own goal after own goal e.g. Kate Searle and co. condemning Sandie Peggie and taking Upton's side without bothering to hear the other side. None of this would have come out.

Was just thinking, todays new complaint from SP covers the actions of various members of Fife's staff in relation to SP.

Fife and these people have already searched, found and published all of their communications in relation to SP in response to a disclosure order

Does this make it difficult for them to introduce any evidence that may have been covered by the original disclosure order into the new case?

If that did, would it leave them open to the accusation that, after multiple additional evidence release cycles, they still have not published all of the relevant information?

There's the DU factor as well. I wonder how this might've played out in a parallel universe where he wasn't named as a respondent but the FWS judgement still happened at the same point, since they seem to have felt a drive to protect him.

Was just thinking, todays new complaint from SP covers the actions of various members of Fife's staff in relation to SP.

It has always sounded to me as though they don't like her and are being vindictive. We don't know the terms of this latest action, but it wouldn't surprise me if they have other emails or WhatsApps which slag her off, which could be relevant but weren't released because they were not pertinant to the Upton case.

I'm a bit confused, what about taking legal action against those two so called friends, lindsey and the other one, for defamation, harassment or whatever?

What I'm getting at is that an organisation as ideologically captured as NHS Fife, and probably the NHS in general, would not be able to settle a Sandie Peggie-type claim because they'd be ideologically blocked from making the kind of redress that would be sufficient to settle the claim.

They're probably be OK with paying very large sum of money with no admissions. Any admission that goes against their religion, that would be a massive problem. They'd have a justified fear that there'd be dozen of Searle-types picketing the hospital.

It wouldn't achieve anything. This case, and related cases that get launched are about achieving strategic outcomes.

And they'd have done unto them what they'd done to Sandie Peggie. Another good point, because they operate a parallel system, and so, scarily, do a lot of other government bodies. I long ago realised there'd been an effective coup facilitated by government money because you point out the law to them till you're blue in the face and they just carry on doing it. So maybe the best revenge is for Naomi Cunningham to thank them very publicly for being responsible for a clarification of transgender rights.

Its more important to address the issues of duty of care to her as a staff member and procedure, hence the ones picked. As senior staff they should have done better.

Her friends being awful is to a certain extent neither here nor there.

Yes, the outcome is to wake up HR departments, senior management, decision makers, and managers to their responsibilities under the law and not according to their religion.

It will be very interesting to see how this case compares to the Darlington case in terms of political fall out.

For the moment NHS Fife’s stance is broadly similar to that of the Scottish Government, but Wes Streeting has already publicly supported the Darlington nurses.

NHS Fife are the leaders in the FAFO game. They probably didn't anticipate quite how much they'd harm themselves. Others following on might reassess how committed they are to the ideology.

pour encourager les autres

I thought the Scottish Government had been rowing back a bit recently. Possibly off the back of this shitshow.

Her friends being awful is to a certain extent neither here nor there.

wtf happened in Benidorm? I feel cheated that I never came across a thread about it on AIBU.

I agree with this. I have no.idea who SP's backer is. But they are obviously invested in making a big point with this case.

After all the evidence of how the individuals now being sued personally conspired to hound SP:

SP must have been gutted at the extent to which they were intent on having her head

And she and the backer must be in agreement that this uncovered evidence gives them a further opportunity, to make the point you raise that individuals must be held individually accountable.

I suspect SP realises her career as a nurse is fried, and might be leaning in to a new lease of life as a figurehead whose treatment can be harnessed. to get institutions such as the NHS and her union to start taking women's rights seriously again.

I agree but I think they have only just got into the boat to paddle away, whereas Streeting put clear water between himself and the trust months ago.

Amd that could work, it has for Maya Forstatter. But a different kind of voice would be very valuable too.

Is there any evidence that NHS Fife wanted, or have tried, to settle the case.

There was a delay on the first day which many people speculated was due to Fife trying to settle and most comments I've seen about settling seem to trace back to those speculations. (The delay was actually due to security issues)

I guess no one's allowed to talk about that until it's over. If it ever is...

I've not seen any evidence of a settlement offer but it would be a very unusual case indeed, and, granted, this is a most unusual case, had there been no attempt to settle by a respondent having huge amounts of cash at its disposal.