NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #52

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence was 29 July 2025. It resumed again over 1 to 2 September for closing submissions.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February 2025. Sandie Peggie returned to give more evidence on 29 July 2025.

Access to view the second part of the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:
drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #50 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 51: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5402652-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-51 1 September 2025 to 2 September 2025

I wish so much everyone could see what observers have seen. JR looks and sounds like a simpering posh little schoolgirl snitch. It's so loathsome.

*waited till break to post so as not to live post contempt from court.

Oh god we likely won't hear anything on the new points raised until November or later.

Ooh but NC asks for advance notice of date of judgment and embargoed copy of judgment 5 days in advance.

Judge thanking everyone in case this is goodbye. Court rises.

What a shit show today has been apart some windows of glorious sunshine from NC!

So does anyone think it will go to more evidence in October?

herald 3:33pm
And that's it for today. EJ Kemp says it could be November before we get a decision, certainly not before.

Oof.

From TT which is 8 minutes behind.

J. NC said c factual matters - government equalities office and code of practice. And research materials

JR Not sure what you mean? The medical papers c DSDs?

J Part of it.

[JR - missed]

I’d be v happy to have NC and the rest of the SP legal team on my side. Professional and focussed.
I can’t decide if JR is inept, or playing a game. Probably both. I’m astonished that this is considered acceptable professional conduct. And in public! This woeful behaviour would not have been tolerated in my former workplaces.
Is the legal profession populated by a coterie of the chattering classes; who abide by archaic public school rules?
Im furious 😡

At this point I wouldn't be surprised if it did but I really hope it doesn't..

This has to end!

Well, these 2 days have been a rough ride, massive sympathies to Sandie, and hope she can relax a bit on her holiday, but it must be so hard to switch off.

I think not. I think nobody will want to do that. I think :

• the Judge will give permission for the amendments to be made
• but refuse to hear any more evidence
• which will be unfair to the Claimant, giving rise to an appeal claim potentially
• but it won't matter, because the Judge will decide for the Claimant anyway.

I'll be extremely interested to hear what people who actually know anything about law think, though - I'm just doing psychology here...

Can silk be withdrawn from a barrister?

What a cliffhanger! When do we find out what happens next, and when?

Something changed along the way from the pre -tribunal skeleton arguments to submission of evidence?

From TT

J We will follow up with qs and qs of clarity and will be back to you when we can. Will have deliberations in mid October. Difficult to say when can hand down judgement, won't be before November.

NC When you hand down judgement would be very helpful to have notice of hand down date and embargoed copy of judgment a few days before made public. At least some notice.

J Will need to check with President. How many days would you like?

NC Five please. [all agree]

J Thank you for your work and help. Am aware of how much work goes into this. That concludes this part of the case.

[Judge rises. Ends.]

That’s all from TT, folks.

I couldn't catch it all, but the Judge's several references to 'completed surgery' do make me think that he is under the impression that DU has had his tackle chopped off.😡
But the idea that ANY male could ever 'complete' his surgical transformation is, as they say, for the birds. The possible surgeries an' tweaks are never ending.

Surely -
-SP was not found guilty of anything (but wrong think) by NHS Fife already
-No one has ever claimed BU has a DSD
-FWS says biological sex
-Facts about male violence are, well, factual facts

I'd argue that lonely on the proven not-to-be-contemporaneous notes as contemporaneous was a bit peculiar, or astonishing, or surprising - or whatever lawyer speak for totally bonkers is?

I haven’t caught up with the whole thread but I am so angry at JRs shenanigans today but also on the J for allowing it. Given that he said ‘it’s not just me but the tribunal’ or words to that effect I now suspect there is someone on the panel hugely favouring JR. they have messed with the courts orders endlessly, causes it extraordinary delays and they keep the process going on and on and on to punish SP. Of course she should be given the opportunity to defend herself against these new allegations and it does feel like a desperate measure to open up grounds for an appeal on R side. But I’m so angry the panel indulged it by taking time to think about it. Let the try for it on appeal. Is ANGRY!

From Google search AI

Yes, a barrister who holds the King's Counsel (KC) title can have it removed, though it is a rare and serious process that involves a formal request and review by the relevant authorities. In Scotland, a panel consisting of the Lord Justice General, Lord Justice Clerk, and Lord Advocate reviews such requests, consults with the Faculty of Advocates and Law Society, and can recommend the revocation of the title to the First Minister, who may then advise the King to revoke the Letters Patent. This process ensures that the title can be removed for serious reasons, not just for administrative changes like a monarch's death.

Why a KC might be removed

Serious misconduct:
A KC may lose their title due to serious misconduct or other reasons that bring the title into disrepute.
Formal request:
The process is initiated by a formal request for the removal of the title, which is then considered by a panel of senior legal officials.

It then stopped, so not a complete answer.

I'm hoping that's just to clarify JR's position on the case, rather than that J doesn't recall or hasn't checked what was said?

Well the fox killer hasn't had it removed so the bar must be pretty high.

Upton gave evidence that he was female. JR is on the spot because if she gives a factually correct answer she'll show his evidence to have been false.

@nauticant- yes, so surely the Judge should have required an answer. Upton lied under oath- we can all see he's a bloke..

I have blocked him and really want to know BUT I'm sure Boswell Today's AI nonsense will give us clues to what it has confabulated about what happened today and what it thinks will happen next 😁

Thanks everyone for being great observer companions. I have really enjoyed all the different perspectives and in-jokes!

Farking hell 😂😂😂