NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #52

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence was 29 July 2025. It resumed again over 1 to 2 September for closing submissions.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February 2025. Sandie Peggie returned to give more evidence on 29 July 2025.

Access to view the second part of the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:
drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #50 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 51: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5402652-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-51 1 September 2025 to 2 September 2025

From TT

JR Not like NC said c someone surprised by so at a rape crisis centre. It's absolutely right that balancing exercise is undertaken. When so is in moment of max vulnerability like discussing rape.

J So it's about balancing rights,

JR Y

J And who did that

JR IB. We've heard from

The judge’s new holiday t shirt

Wish we'd had Big Sond's internal monologue for these questions!

Which should be interpreted as, go and ask your client.

From TT

JR [We've heard from] KS

J Did she give permission

JR She consulted IB. IB job to do research and consider issues. So did ED and ?MC - discussed with C what could be done and was right thing to do.

J Prior to KS giving permission, what did R do?

JR Can't recall if evidence was DU had used

The Trust have already admitted they did no risk assessments and did not know the precise numbers and demographics of female staff that would be effected by DU's presence in the changing room. To " balance rights" as JR is suggesting is to take into account all of those whose rights are in the balance, surely?

Aaaarggg<thump>. ...... Aaargg<thump>.

Poor taste maybe, but made me smile.

JR can't remember the discussion about Dr U using female locker room. Both his and KS's versions and each one's facial expressions at the time are burned into my memory.

I am still waiting for someone in court to question how much use he had for female changing room while on a psychiatry rotation that would have heavily involved working in the community and on outpatient calls in his civvies.

From TT

JR [had DU used] CR before discussing with KS. If there was evidence DU using f cr before conversation with KS, was cos Du had been doing so before in NHS and cos DU was allowed to. IB evidence that most boards in EW and Scotland were doing the same.

'I'll come back to you on that' how many times has she said that now?

Lots of I'll get back to you on that from JR

Compare and contrast to NCs responses.

It's night and day.

And a Forshatter and again

Seems unlikely that JR really didn't remember that Upton was using female facilities before the discussion with Kate Searle, doesn't it?

Yeah, cry me a river aboout IB and KS.

I bet he's deleted his Whatsapp holiday chat if he is off on his hols with friends!

At this point...

From TT

J What do you say re burden of proof?

JR Will come back to you on that

J We didn't hear evidence that R2 met GRC requirements but you said R2 was in 2nd year or living in req gender. When started?

JR Jan 2022?

J was completed in Aug 22?

JR Will check and come back to you.

My mother would have said just because X jumped of a cliff doesn't mean you have to

God JR stop! Just stop with the Multiple Forshatters

Is the judge asking if Theo had surgery???!

Getting the impression the J has done his homework on this - good qs

Vic Valentine changed the declaration? Did I hear that right?

Did it seem like the “do you need to take instruction?” was to avoid an appeal where one of the respondents suggests that they didn’t have appropriate legal support? For example, it is in Fife’s interest to say Upton is male, but they were doing what they considered the right thing based on the knowledge they had at the time and balancing rights, but in Upton’s to say female to avoid any accusation of lying under oath or being an unreliable witness?

JR is leaning in to the judge, using a simpering voice, with a very silly, young, smiling pleading tone, on the matters she can't speak to.

Now we have moved on to Vic Valentine and while still silly and pleading she is more defiant and MF is Miss Forshatter once more.

The judge is remaining firm and challenging.

It rather sounded as though the judge was assuming Theo had had surgery, and just asking when exactly!!

She's only beshatting herself.