NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #52

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence was 29 July 2025. It resumed again over 1 to 2 September for closing submissions.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February 2025. Sandie Peggie returned to give more evidence on 29 July 2025.

Access to view the second part of the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:
drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #50 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 51: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5402652-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-51 1 September 2025 to 2 September 2025

Maybe she can do that in response to the email questions about stats.

I wonder if he'll explain in his Substack broadcast tonight.

It is easy for me to be confused over MF = Maya Forstater and MF = Michael Foran.

Panel back

WRT Health & Safety Regulations they are quite broad but ultimately they can see a responsible person given a prison sentence.

They put a duty of care on an employer and on managers acting on their employers behalf. Many manager’s forget this.

DSE assessments are a good example of H & S trying to prevent injury at work such as RSI from keyboard and mouse usage. Fail to do them strengthens an employees claim.

At the other end you have very distressing cases like Hillsborough where the only conviction was a breach of H & S.

Judge to JR can I start with For Women Scotland

Brave man

Sound is shit again from JR I wonder if her mic is knackered.

JR I don't think FWS defines biological sex

Oh dear, the unanswerable question.

A note on the copying and pasting of TT

If I paste more than one tweet I have to delete links like this:

A big picture of the TT avatar

Tribunal Tweets

@tribunaltweet

This is quicker than copying and pasting each tweet individually.

Similarly, the paste removes all the line breaks, so I like to format this:

“And we operate SSS to mitigate the risk of those. J - thank you I have some detailed qs for you”

into this:

“And we operate SSS to mitigate the risk of those.

J - thank you I have some detailed qs for you”

so you can read it more easily.

Some statements run over two posts, so I sometimes add the speaker initials at the beginning so you know it’s the judge or NC if it’s not clear.

And I run some posts together which means adding a space between them, and then insert paragraph breaks so it’s easier to read.

I’m also trying to keep up with the thread as you are all making such brilliant points and asking amazing questions, and I want to contribute my own thoughts.

So apologies if I’m a few minutes behind and you’re dying to know what’s being said.

❤️❤️❤️

Judge asking JR something along the lines of what she thinks the definition is

This afternoon has felt like we are listening to two students of very different ability go through their viva with a tough panel.

😂JR will not answer that question.

What sex do you think DU is?

Crumbs.

Judge: what do you say is the sex of the second respondent. Do you need to take instructions?

Big Sond asks JR what she believes DR Uptons biological sex. JR rendered speechless.

Brilliant Q from the judge. "What do you say is BU's sex?"

I went to pieces in mine!

love this @Boiledbeetle
Judge: what do you say is the sex of the second respondent. Do you need to take instructions?

I agree!

As usual, Naomi Cunningham displaying her absolute mastery of the law. Jane Russell, less so.

From TT

J JR -to start with FWS, what do you say is impact of that case on our case - [sections]

J To summarise C conclusion - say can only read act construed by FWS can only use sss if aligned with that sex.

JR Impact on FWS on this case - Du couldn't bring sex discrimination case being excluded from W CR but could bring GR claim.

J NC said not discrimination on sex

JR More likely an indirect discrimination case

JR Would need to be element of proportionality.

J you say nay or nay depending on evidence. NC says needs to keep sss to bio sex of those concerned

J FWS says limited to Sex assigned at birth. Bio sex = sex at birth.

JR It doesn't say what that entails beyond the act

J Wouldn't it be your birth cert

JR Could be. But doesn't go on to describe genitals, chromosomes etc

J What do you say

JR Difficult. From memory,

On FWS and Dr U saying that he is biological and a woman therefore a biological woman

JR: "Dr Upton in evidence wasn't talking as a lawyer."

Judge asked JR if she would like to take instructions on what sex she thinks R2 is. She declined.

It was all rather awks.