NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #51

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence was 29 July 2025. It resumed again over 1 to 2 September for closing submissions.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February 2025. Sandie Peggie returned to give more evidence on 29 July 2025.

Access to view the second part of the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:
drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #50 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 50: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5387893-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-50 7 August 2025 to 1 September 2025

Can anyone advise..I thought the SC already found that if you have a man in a SS space it isn't a SS space any more- so by definition all SSS will exclude transpeople of the opposite sex. So I don't understand why JR is pursuing this- assume to try and undermine SC judgement?

He was still Dr T Upton in Aug 2022.

So by Dec 2023 he can't have been two years in to transition, and certainly not in Aug 2023 when he joined the department, and certainly not at the previous placement prior to Aug 2023 when he apparently was using womens single sex spaces.

From TT

Her case is that all happened because of her GC beliefs. She was either persecuted because of the rejection of her harassment claim or because of her beliefs, she can't have it both ways. Authorities quoted by Cs do not take matters further because they do not address TP in CRs.

from herald
10:34am
Naomi Cunningham said yesterday NHS Fife was trying to punish Sandie Peggie for her gender critical views.
But Jane Russell responds in her submission, arguing that there was no evidence of this, and the claim has been "strenuously denied" by the health board.
Ms Russell also rejects the harassment claim by Ms Peggie's team. She has said there has been no evidence presented that NHS Fife acted in this way.
Similarly, there is no way to prove that she was "harassed" for her gender critical beliefs.

Did JR just assume the class of the people in the room? That seems a risky thing to do. I know several lawyers who would proudly describe themselves as working class.

Judge looks as if he's about to drop off.

Note that JR has not presented anything about Sandie Peggie having been put through an unfair process.

JR is running these arguments purely about "trans rights" and not to ameliorate the impact of a negative judgment against NHS Fife on the basis of unfair process. So far, JR's closing seems to be to benefit Upton.

I wonder if this was agreed with NHS Fife.

Trans women are a subset of men!

JR and their like "2+2=5 Winston Sandie! Say it or you get the rats!"

I thought he had!

WTF?! Amend grounds of pleading?!?! At this stage?! 🙈🙈

If it wasn't for the pen moving, I would think him asleep.

I know its JRs job to make an argument for her respondents, and I know she is very pro trans rights, but the more she says the more I wonder if she actually believes the words coming out of her own mouth.

From TT

C says that SSS are a benefit because they are SS. The case relied on is about a male prisoner being stripped search, not about a trans person. C almost completely ignores the PC of GR. The burden from the C is to establish group disadvantage.

A SSS is not a benefit or a detriment, unless there is evidence of it. There is not evidence that TW have a negative effect on women in CRs. And that most women would not have a problem with it.

LM's evidence that she was happy to share to CR with TP at rugby.

JR going total DARVO

She said "most of" the people in the room were in trouble (for being middle class) so she's probably safe...But I don't think any of these arguments are much good. Hopefully she's just using up time until she loses. I suppose, if this is going to appeal anyway, it doesn't in the long run make that much difference whether it is won or lost at this stage. Michael Foran sounded very optimistic, though. Even if the judge is inclined towards the TRA side (and not just bending over backwards to be seen to be fair) it doesn't follow that he will let that side win - he'll want to get the law right, as it would be embarrassing to be shown up as not having done so, at appeal.

She's making NHS Fife sound like they are complete idiots.

Thanks JR!

I noticed this too and the fair process being followed is the bulk of this ET, but JR is just skirting around it to push her TRA agenda.

From herald 10:39am
Ms Russell said there is no evidence that transwomen being in female only spaces harms women.
Similarly, there is no evidence that women are fearful or against transwomen using these facilities.
She points to evidence from Lottie Myles, who said she shared a changing room with trans people in her rugby team.
Ms Russell says that Ms Cunningham's argument puts transwomen in a "subcategory" of men.
Transwomen are protected in law, she says.

It looks like JR is soldiering on with the arguments she created before the Supreme Court ruled because she's got nothing else. She's a true believer, but if she's got an ounce of analytical thought, she has to know she's on a hiding to nothing. At best, she might get the harassment claim disproved (although, fuck knows, Fife has spent most of the case tearing down Sandie's character so the harassment has been happening in front of the judge).

Good thing JR is one of the cool kids who will never have to worry about stripping off in front of a man. Her arguments read like a DARVO script.

From TT

The C relies on J Phoenix report that compares TW to cis men and concludes that they retain male patterns of violence. She considers TW a subset of men, like left handed men, men who do engineering or were born under the sign of scorpio. VV unchallenged evidence says that

JR is trying to throw in as many big words as she can.

What or who is 'GLP'?

From TT

there is not evidence that TW harm women in CRs. The C says 'absence of evidence is not evidence of absence'. Courts deal with evidence, not mantras like TWAM. VV evidence is that the Euro Comm for HR, says that trans rights allows men to access women's SSS is not correct

It's an area of a likely defeat for NHS Fife and, so far, JR is doing nothing to limit its potential damage. She surely cannot be doing this without the pre-agreement of NHS Fife.