Where do people think the transvestites have gone?

[ItsCoolForCats]

I remember a time when a distinction was made between transexuals and transvestites, and there was a recognition that the latter category often cross dressed for fetishistic reasons.

But now everyone is just trans. So regarding those who advocate for any man who says he is trans to access women's single sex spaces, where do they think all the transvestites have gone?

How do we stop boys from developing this fetish? Or other ones, for that matter? Is it impossible?

It's an excellent question OP and one I've pondered on myself. Are cross dressing men now all to be classed as "transwomen"? Are there cross dressers out there that really don't want to be categorised as some form of real woman? There certainly used to be but you never hear anything about them now.

My friends uncle was a transvestite since the 70s. He moved to a city as there were clubs he could go to where he could dress up. Totally separate from the rest of his life, everyone knew and didn’t speak about it.

2 years ago he declares he is actually a woman. After 2 incidents of him coming to family meals/meet ups and being aggressive, particularly towards the younger female members of the family, he’s been banned .
I imagine the transvestites have all been told now they are women.

Since you mention it, erotic cross-dressing did seem to be regarded more with amused tolerance in the 70s.

I think they're still around, doing their thing, and if they haven't become drag artists or 'transitioned' (like David Hayton), they're doing it in private, or on the Internet, and if they go out (like Grayson Perry does) people assume they're trans. Which probably spoils the buzz, because it's not transgressive enough.

I have a friend who's an erotic cross-dresser and is thinking about transitioning (in his 70s🙄), so he's been talking to people about it (as in, therapists: not Jeremy Vine's radio phone-in). He's getting a lot of push-back, particularly from post-op TWs, who are very dubious about the purity of his motivation.

Having said that, David Hayton describes his paraphilia as so agonising that it was a relief when genital surgery finally both sated it, and brought it to an end.

Who are the men who like to cross dress but it's not a fetish? (Apart from the group who would like to be women or are gay).

(Looking back i can only see men who eventually came out as gay or those who got a sexual kick in my life experience)

Has your friend said why he is transitioning at this stage in his life? In the past, there seemed to have been an acceptance that some men cross dress for sexual reasons, but whatever they got up to in the privacy of their own homes or with other consenting adults was their own business. But now more of these men seem to be leaning into the gender ideology narrative that they are actually women. I think Kathleen Stock talks about it in her book, that if there was less shame and stigma attached to cross dressing, maybe these men wouldn't feel the need to take refuge under the trans umbrella. It's been a while since I've read it, so I can't remember exactly how she phrased it.

I honestly find it hard to wrap my head around some of the paraphilias that men have, but I think the important thing is that they are managed in a way that doesn't involve bringing non-consenting participants into it. And women having the boundary of a single sex space is really important for that reason.

I often think this too. I don't think younger people realise today that everyone used to know about transvestites and what they were into and that even the transvestites themselves openly admitted it was a fetish. Everyone knew it was a fetish. No one thought they were women or wanted to be women for a second.

And then suddenly, they all became part of the rainbow community and just as much women as everyone born female.

100% this My XH is one but he"s now getting free electrolysis, a book job and facial feminiastion surgery for free on.the NHS. Nice of the tax payer to fund him getting his rocks off.

He's extremely vague about it, and I'm not going to ask him probing questions! It's a pity there isn't still someone like Blanchard around doing the research.

In a sense, it doesn't matter, because it doesn't affect the question of who should use women's single-sex services etc. But there are many here who are offended by any man dressing as a woman in public, because at least some of them will be enjoying it sexually.

On previous threads about what GC campaigners' ultimate objectives should be, this question - what to do about public cross-dressing - was always the hardest to answer. After all, if you're a gender critical libertarian, you should be happy for everyone to wear what they want.

Of course certain standards of decency can be imposed by the law, or by a venue, or by employers. But I have it on good authority that it's possible to get an erotic charge from dressing like Miss Marple (Joan Hickson, obvs). It's the fact that they're women's clothes that makes it sexy.

Men are weird, and no mistake.

How on earth is he getting that free on the nhs?

Using one word was very clever of who made the decision to do it, because it lumps the ordinary trans people in with the fetishists and men who want to be able to take advantage of the situation. It made it easier to add on to the end of LGB, until the seemingly straight but unsatisfied with being ordinary people decided they were "queer".

This is just another example of how the trans movement redefined or got rid of words that they didn't like.

Very early on the TRAs said that Transsexual and transvestite were insults and couldn't be used.

Transsexual is currently being reclaimed by older trans people as denying them this description is denying them their identity.

Isn't it strange, that since so many speech rules and laws have been imposed, the worse this country has become.

I have a theory that the word rules keep changing frequently, so as to trip up the innocent user, in order that the virtue signaller can jump in and correct them.

A lot of them do. These men post about it on their own forums. "Euphoria boners" and such.

I feel like years ago it was generally accepted that transvestites we’re doing it for a sexual fetish, but now it’s more about ‘identity’ which makes me think either people are more naive or are being disingenuous.

Which is why we should stop giving the inaccurate courtesy of calling them transwomen and call them what they are ie Trans Identifying Men. TIM.

In the long run, I think it has turned out to be a bit of an own goal.

But there are many here who are offended by any man dressing as a woman in public, because at least some of them will be enjoying it sexually. [...] this question - what to do about public cross-dressing - was always the hardest to answer

There is no way to stop men enjoying themselves sexually in public, providing they don't break any decency laws.
They could be getting off on dressing as a woman, or on shoulder-barging women (see other threads), or ogling sports cars, or whatever else goes on in their strange minds.
Likewise a woman walking down the street may be getting off on her own underwear or those fanny balls (can't recall the name).

I am in favour of anyone wearing whatever (decent) clothes they like, male or female. (That rules out scrunch-bum leggings for everyone!)
All you can do if you suspect someone is 'feeling sexy' in public is ignore them, up until they cross the line.

They just do it out in the open.

Someone I know through a group has grown his hair in the last few years, changed his name but only for people he socialises with in certain groups (his wife and family still call him by his real name, his kids call him dad, grandchildren call him grandad) but he dresses up in a frock to go out with the hobby group and to go to pride marches. He’s not really committed 😂

I agree

Has anyone got 'Where have all the flowers gone?' as an earworm? Although 'Long time passing'? In your dreams, mate!

@ItsCoolForCats I 100% know the sort of people you are talking about. 20/30yrs ago definitely saw the traditional ‘cross -dressing’ man once in a while. Still looked a bit blokey, maybe had grown their hair. Wearing makeup and heels.

Never said they were a women etc etc.

I know of one man like this now, he still says he’s a man, and he’s called Simon. But wears women’s skirts and bags, heels out for the day or shopping. He’s in his 50/60’s. He seems like the cross dressing guys back in the 80’s !

It’s very different now.

Men who call themselves gender-fluid or non-binary (and you’ll notice it’s mostly men calling themselves that) fall in one of two categories: unsure about their (homo)sexuality or transvestites/cross-dressers.
This gender spectrum thought experiment and idea that being a woman is a social construct have been cooked up by so-called academics with way too much time available, promoted by LGBT activists - who added a few letters to that anagram - and their allies in the media (BBC) and have given crossdressing men a legitimacy and permission to go out they could have only dreamed of.
What was once a closeted fetish experienced mostly alone or with fear in public is now a celebrated lifestyle where men like Pips Bunce parade in front of large audiences in what can only be described as a transvestite costume and be praised for it ( I mean was the emperor ever more naked?
Having this once-in-a-millennia opportunity to hop on the bandwagon of oppressed minorities and victims of a society dominated by white heterosexual men, these white heterosexual men obviously do not hesitate to choose the “gender fluid” or “non-binary” label that sound a lot cooler and legitimate than being called a transvestite, with all the rights attached to being a minority and victim. Even 20 years ago, the likes of Pips Bunce could have done their crossdressing only at home - they clearly cannot pass in public. Now they can go to work en femme with no one daring to say anything no matter how uncomfortable they feel, and can even win awards in the woman category just by wearing a dress, pantyhose, some makeup and a wig.
The transvestites have not disappeared, they just call themselves something else now.

This isn't always the case.
Some former transvestites do go on to change their gender identity including using opposite sex facilities.

One thing the past few years has taught me is that many people can completely forget things they knew and seemingly understood 10 years ago.

See also - the political left's views on Euroskeptisism and free trade.