What would you actually do if you saw a transperson in the wrong toilet/changing room for their sex? Thread 2

[FattyMcFattyArse]

Continuing the previous thread because it filled up. Really appreciating all the contributors giving their views, experiences and educating others.

What would YOU do if you came across a male dressed as a woman in a public ladies' loo?

Or indeed a woman presenting as a man in the men's toilets?

Would you confront them? Walk away and say nothing? Report it to staff?

I’d have a problem although until faced with the situation I’m not sure how I’d react. Friend joined a local sports club and the second time she went with her daughter two males were getting changed in the female changing room. She complained but got nowhere. Obviously it doesn’t matter if every female in the club agreed this was fine, if one woman says it’s affected her, she can claim discrimination. Not sure where she’s at with the process but I hope that its resolved with the SC ruling.

How do you know what they are thinking and feeling?

They could be very "euphoric" just being in a place where only women are supposed to be (by law) and you wouldn't know. Huge affirmation dopamine high. Also, to be crude, a skirt can easily hide an erection. And they don't have to be overtly leering - just being there is enough.

Ughh that's so grim.

I have no idea why women who say they have 'no problem' turn a blind eye to the fetish part of trans identity.

Is it female socialisation to just let men behave how they wish?

Jeez that is disgusting. Even more depraved than I thought. I didn't even watch the videos but the stills were enough to make me want to bleach my eyes, and I'm fairly liberal. I feel violated and I wasn't even in those bathrooms or changing rooms!

I wonder too. And the thing is, predatory men with bad intentions are relying on us to ignore that gut instinct.

My question was for NormasArse but thank you for answering anyway.

Yeah, that sounds fair enough tbh.

I noticed one last month, it wasn't until I was washing my hands and could see a very clearly male face in the mirror just along from mine.
I did nothing because it was in a pub, (Spoons), with young staff and it was just before a gig round the corner that I knew would have a very alphabetty crowd, (Mika, in Millennium Square, Leeds), I knew it would be me that would be made to feel I was in the wrong.
I didn’t feel unsafe, it was v busy, but I did feel uncomfortable, I did notice and I bloody well did mind.
I hung back so he wasn't behind me on the stairs.

Being in a space where they know they are making women feel uncomfortable is inappropriate behaviour, decent men don't do that, why is it ok if they throw on a dress?

I would want them to feel as uncomfortable as possible about being in a place they know damn well they're not allowed to be.

They don't give a shit about women feeling uncomfortable, do they?

Not only that, but that was from a few years ago.

On porn sites at the time, this was a rapidly expanding category. I can only assume that there are now huge numbers of these videos.

But ... apparently, it will never happen. And if it does, there are many posters for who 'it is alright Jack. Doesn't matter to me.'

I already have and I think it's quite a different thing. A man in a women's (or girls') changing room is a pervert afaic and I would find security to deal with it.

Most people support the Supreme Court judgement.

Most people think that transwomen should use unisex or men's services.

'...unisex toilets were the most popular response as a solution for transgender people. [41%]'

https://sex-matters.org/posts/updates/poll-shows-public-support-for-the-supreme-court-decision/

I’d report to staff because I’m a wimp. I’d also be terrified that it was just a fug ugly woman and I’d got it wrong.

I’m mid fifties and only 5ft1.
I wouldn’t say anything directly but would feel at the least uncomfortable.
If my DD was in there I would hang around (and glare) until she came out with me.
If I could I’d speak to staff - otherwise I’d be chuntering to whoever I was with. I’m not directly confrontational.

Whether I confront the man directly depends on the circumstances and whether it's safe to do so but I will be making a complaint to the toilet/changing room service provider every time it happens.

I’d say nothing and leave - and I’m tall and built. Confrontation is not a good idea.

They don't give a shit about women feeling uncomfortable, do they?

Some of them positively relish it.

😂

That wasn't what was asked in the OP though was it.

There are lots of reasons why trans women may not want to do it in the mens. Just as plenty of trans men may not want to do it in the ladies. And why lots of trans people may prefer a separate neutral bathroom. Is it really that difficult a mental stretch even if you don't personally agree with their rationale?

Just because they don't want to, doesn't mean they can't.

Why is what they want more important than everyone else's rights or safety?

I don't care what they want. Their gender identity isn't relevant to other people.

Thanks. I used to agree but I realised actually I was uncomfortable and that's valid. Many women are okay although some don't mind. It's the more marginal case.

I also realised that unless you know them personally there's no way to tell if someone is genuinely trans (i.e. has a gender identity) from a man with other sexual motivations (which includes being aroused by dressing as a women, acting as a woman, being aroused by invading women's boundaries and having the opportunity to rape women or girls).

Even those genuinely trans (i.e. they present as woman all the time not to enter women's spaces) can and do pose risks to women in womens spaces and have raped and sexually assaulted them. Most retain penises.

As well as there are often third gender neutral loos available but transwomen still refuse to use them. Even though they are aware they present male and are scaring women.

But again, women are not a monolith. I personally would not feel uncomfortable with this as others have said before, though I acknowledge that others feel very differently.

I do also think saying "throw on a dress" is very minimising and it really only speaks to the stereotypical notion of what a trans person - specifically a trans woman - is like. I know a trans man who is nearby 6 ft bearded and built. Its unlikely you'd be able to tell so it would not be appropriate for them to use the ladies and they would probably be called out - why should they have to explain their medical history to strangers? And at that rate what is stopping any other man coming in to the ladies and saying they're a trans man? Similarly there are trans women who "pass" very well and who also probably feel out of place in a men's toilet. This is where the argument falls apart for me because it only matters when it's someone who is 'obviously' transgender.

Ultimately if someone is acting inappropriately or being creepy etc then they need to be held to account for that. But simply being transgender is not automatically creepy or inappropriate. That's your perception of their motivation and not necessarily the reality.

Consent is not transferable, men are men, we can tell, they at the very least make us uncomfortable and they know it.
Only a particularly nasty sort of man would do it repeatedly.