What would you actually do if you saw a transperson in the wrong toilet/changing room for their sex? Thread 2

[FattyMcFattyArse]

Continuing the previous thread because it filled up. Really appreciating all the contributors giving their views, experiences and educating others.

What would YOU do if you came across a male dressed as a woman in a public ladies' loo?

Or indeed a woman presenting as a man in the men's toilets?

Would you confront them? Walk away and say nothing? Report it to staff?

Is there an element of many thinking (probably wrongly) that they "pass" so there won't be an issue? And if nobody says anything (which mostly people won't, for various reasons but mostly because we're British and don't do confrontation), that's then evidence that they do indeed pass?

Gosh, this is such a silly argument.

The idea that because we've now told men who are clearly male and look like they were born male that they shouldn't be in women's toilets regardless of what they're wearing makes it easier for men to enter women's spaces by pretending they were born female?

No it bloody doesn't.

99% of men will never be able to convince a person with functioning eyes that they were born female.

It's far easier for a man to pretend that he was born male but feels like a woman inside than it is for him to pretend that he is a trans man.

They tell each other they pass, no one dares say anything in single sex spaces and in the UK it's rare to "gender" someone.
Nobody really says, "thank you Mrs/Miss", at a checkout, or, "Sorry Sir", if you jump into them for example, so they're all convinced they pass.
They don't, we all know they don't but they're all just some weird cheerleading club.

I have done before and I didn’t think it would ever have bothered me but it did.

Any male person in the UK who enters a female single sex provision now after the SC judgement is doing so with the knowledge that they have been excluded by law from that space, and I don't believe any of those entering could argue that they did not understand that their presence may cause female people distress.

Surely, the question to ask is 'why would any male person violate the law in this way?

You may question their motivation. However, I think that the law is clear now and any male person entering into a female single sex provision over the age of about 8 years old can be determined to not respect the law or the female people who are using and needing that space.

What other motivation do women need to understand other than that?

I would keep my head down and give them a wide berth.

If a man is willing to ignore the law and invade my personal space on that level, then I can’t trust them not to do it on other levels too.

I’d walk out.

I would ignore.

However, recently I was inadvertently heading towards the men's loos at a London railway station and a bloke stopped me and told me I was going to the wrong loo. So he wasn't bothered about challenging me! It actually turned out that I could have got to either loo from the way I was going, but they are newly renovated and neither of us realised.

Depending on the vibe I got off him, I'd like to think I'd tell him to get out.

I'd be standing by the exit telling him this and I'd be ready to leave and report. He's breaking the law and I'd hope he'd be dealt with.

I like the "oh sorry, thought this was the Ladies" and walk out which someone suggested (previous thread?). Makes the point without being confrontational.

Obviously helps if you're not desperate for the loo!

I'd imagine it's probably quite dangerous for transwomen to use men's toilets...

I'm not sure there's ever been a reported case of a transwoman being attacked in a men's toilet. Maybe they would get some funny looks. But I doubt most men really care.

Much the same for me, maybe that good old social conditioning many of us have experienced since young plays a part?

I’d add though that in the case of a TW using female facilities it would confirm my thought that this was one of those narcissistic biological males who puts their feelings above those and the dignity of biological women and girls. If you’re so worried about your safety using the facilities that match your birth sex then do something about that - challenge those men and leave women out of it.

This. If I was on my own I would turn around and walk straight out and report it.

So women should be used as human shields, should we?

Even though they’re bringing ‘the danger’ (male person with male strength, penis and now lack of respect for the law) into the ladies loos.

Perhaps they could put their energy into actually changing that situation?

If this is case, can you point to the campaign that will make male toilets in the UK safe for all male people?

I mean, there are other groups of male people that are just as vulnerable to attack by other male people, so where is this campaign?

Should any other group of vulnerable male people be allowed to use the female single sex spaces because it is 'quite dangerous' for them? Or just this group?

And you say you imagine that it is probably dangerous, yet there are male people with transgender identities who use the male single sex spaces in the UK everyday. One of these male people even documents it to assure other male people with transgender identities that it is safe. Do you have any evidence to back up your point?

So, how do we square those male people with transgender identities's experience where they are safely using the male single sex spaces with this narrative that it is so very unsafe?

Based on what evidence, exactly?

We need more than imagination to justify removing safeguarding for women and girls.

The only place it’s likely to happen is a public loo where my husband can be nearby. There is a man who likes to do self manned photo shoots of himself in various exposing poses wearing flimsy mini skirts. If he tried to enter the women’s I would tell him the men’s are next door, and if he’s not comfortable in the me s, there is a unisex toilet a couple of hundred metres away.

in any other situation I would be having to calculate personal safety Verdi what is right.

The other women’s toilet is regularly stickers by pro women campaigners so he wouldn’t use those!

Why should we care what they want or don't want? No one ever asks what women want, do they?

No one gives a shit what we want when we have disabilities, or religious observances, or would just like some damned privacy and dignity.

They can use gender neutral facilities all they want and with our blessing, but transwomen must stay the hell out of our female spaces. They aren't women, they can't become women and they have no business co-opting what isn't for them.

It’s tough then isn’t it. Why should their preferences trump women’s and men’s preferences to single sex spaces. That we are entitled to by law. Can you name one benefit to women especially of allowing males in to their single sex spaces and therefore making them mixed sex? No one so far has been able to answer this. Are you the one?

Why? And why is that our problem?

I would like to think I would say something to him, but I know that would depend on my level of confidence/motivation that day, how big and strong he was probably, and exactly where it was. In a changing room at the gym, I think I would. In a public toilet at a station or public place, probably not.

Well you've used the p word so I will too! It's that "item" which makes all the difference. If you're unlucky enough (lol) to have a penis, you are NOT welcome in toilets, changing rooms, or anywhere else that is marked for v-sprouting members of society!
(As far as I'm concerned anyway.)
I'm one of the best/worst women when it comes to joking about penes (or should it be penii?), but the simple serious fact is that they are undesirable objects (with the possible exception of a bedroom containing 2 consenting adults) which should be heavily restricted.

(I'm aware that within my age group - I'm 21 - I'm not in the majority, but minorities are so often proved to be right!)

I'd like to hear contributions from any religious people with strong views on conduct/contact with the opposite sex.

And I think public toilets and say gym or swimming changing rooms are somewhat different. Women are much more vulnerable in a communal showering/changing facility.

In my recent experience in a busy service station toilets, the man wasn't there when I went in, but was there at the sinks when I left the cubicle. He was probably quicker at peeing than me (for obvious reasons). But that means I am not sure what I would have done if I had walked into the toilets and seen him there. Would I have walked out again? Probably not because I was busting after a long car journey. After I saw him, I just quickly washed my hands and left.

In most men's toilets I would be astonished if anything worse than a comment occurred. By far the most likely possibilities are no reaction or a bit of side eye. Most times I go into the Gents I don't even look at anyone else in there.

There are some insalubrious neighbourhoods where I would only go into the toilets if desperate; that's as an undistinguished tall bloke. I could understand anyone who looks even less manly than me wanting to avoid such places. But in most men's public (or pub) toilets, I doubt if many of the other occupants would bat an eyelid, mainly because the occupants would be too unobservant and focussed on their own business to notice who was with them.

Last week I was in a crowded Gents and there was a man (who appeared to have a learning disability) standing at a urinal with his trousers round his ankles, arse on full display. After a moment's surprise, I ignored this unusual behaviour, as did everyone else.