What would you actually do if you saw a transperson in the wrong toilet/changing room for their sex?

[FattyMcFattyArse]

I've been pondering this ever since the FWS decision and since I saw an obviously male transperson using the ladies at a service station. I initially froze and wanted to say something, but all my Britishness and female social conditioning made me just mutter under my breath and walk away in disgust.

What would you do?

What have you done?

What is the right thing to do?

They don't belong there, according to the law.

It seems to be working for you guys.

It's a great strategy if you have no other strategies, for sure.

Why does anyone need a strategy? This has just become nonsense. Enjoy the wasted evening to go with the wasted day 😘

I don't need a strategy to avoid owning my bullshit because I don't bullshit in the first place.

If you’ve had to jam toilet doors open, then you’ve effectively exposed yourself to others in the loo – and I can see how some women and children might not have appreciated being put in that position. But the experiences you describe are really about a lack of proper mother-and-baby or accessible facilities, which is a separate issue altogether.

And yes, of course I prioritise my friends – I know them and trust them. They are not predatory men. I see my trans female friends as women, and my trans male friends as men. They are kind, thoughtful people who deserve respect and the right to live their lives as they see fit. They aren’t hurting anyone.

The assumption that all trans women are secretly predatory men is absurd. Within such a small percentage of the population, there will inevitably be the same tiny proportion of people capable of assault – but to suggest that trans women as a group pose a unique risk is simply not supported by evidence.

You're about the 4th person on this thread to think your points are original. They've all been debunked before. Transwomen are male. Males are 50% of the population, @ThatCalmCat . Not 1%. You don't get to take 1% of males out of the 50% male population, re-badge them as 'trans', then say because they are wearing a dress they are now no longer a threat. A male is a male is a male, regardless of whether in a dress or in a suit and tie. A male being in a female space is traumatising to women and girls, to rape survivors like me.

The myth that transwomen are at increased risk of assault has been debunked numerous times. There is zero evidence a transwoman is at any risk in the males. There have been no reports of assault. Anywhere. And they'd rub it in our faces and never ever ever let us forget it if there were any. On the contrary, evidence shows transwomen commit sexual assault 5 times greater than other males.

And as stated by myself and others on this thread, over and over again, it's not just about safety. It's about privacy and dignity for women and girls away from the male gaze. Women and girls flee to the ladies to escape men. Cry. Miscarry. Rinse out blood stained underwear, and can be in a state of semi undress at the sinks if changing to go somewhere or adjust ourselves. We don't feel comfortable with males there. It's really common sense and what our foremother feminists fought for. A male in a dress with no lived experience as a woman who has male height and male advantage and went through male puberty is traumatising to other women and girls. 1% of males in a dress are still male. And no male, no matter how he identifies, belongs in a female only intimate single sex space. No matter what he wears.

I'm a rape survivor and find your aggression very triggering. I know where the risk is and it isn't in a toilet.

the horror of a trans woman by the sink

A male by the sink. A fully intact male by the sink of an intimate female only safe space for women and girls.

MALES! Males! Calling them 'transwomen' does not change the fact they are fully intact males!

Re-badging a male as a 'transwoman' doesn't change the fact it's a fully intact male. No matter how much you want your sleight of hand trick to work. It won't. It's a male.

TW are men. Many of them are men with an erotic compulsion to present as a woman. They have no place in a female only facility. It really is that simple.

No you haven’t ‘exposed yourself’ to others in that sense. It’s the reality of full height toilet doors getting wet with urine or cleaning products, expanding and then jamming.

If your friends were in the unfortunate situation of being in a very vulnerable life-threatening or distressing state in a toilet, would it be better that they could be seen and heard in that cubicle? If you think it would be better that they could be seen and heard then it’s better that they go to single sex toilets for their sex. That’s the safest. If you want them to be in the cleanest set, again that’s single sex too. But if people keep going to sets of toilets that are not for their sex then the toilet designs become private.

A rape survivor knows the risk is males. And that putting any male (no matter what he wears) in an intimate female only space is a recipe for disaster.

You think women dont get raped in toilets?

There is no one pace where women may be more at risk than all others. But a place in which women and girls are undressed or pre-occupied with their intimate biological function is not a suitable or appropriate place for a man. You can invite anyone you like into your space at home...but public amenities have rules on entry to provide a basic level of safeguarding.

Yes, we get it that women are often attacked by intimate male partners in their own homes...uninvited...but that doesn't mean we should not have single sex spaces in the public realm.

They are kind, thoughtful people who deserve respect and the right to live their lives as they see fit. They aren’t hurting anyone.

If males are using women's spaces/facilities, they are harming women. Either by alarming them, causing anxiety, or triggering PTSD, or by invading privacy, or by forcing women to self exclude. This will cover many women, including victims of sexual assault and various religious women.

It's not fair to prioritise men over these women. Your male friends can use men's spaces. Women need single sex spaces for many reasons.

@TheAmusedQuail you are wrong. Google.

I'm in the US and this is unfortunately legal. I've encountered men in both changing room and toilets recently. In the changing room, I sat and waited until he left the room before I got changed. It was uncomfortable, and I'd have been very upset if I'd been half-naked and he'd walked in on me drying myself off.

In the toilets, I was washing my hands opposite a rather tall man, also washing his hands. I stared, but didn't say anything. Again, it was uncomfortable.

And you really don’t understand what people are saying when they talk about how safeguarding requires that all male people above about 8 years old should be treated the same - ie. They are assumed to be the exact same risk of all other male people. Ie. It is safeguarding that assumes that all male people are treated as if they are the same.

It is remarkable to see the accusation though that someone using the toilet legitimately when there are not other alternatives, as per the EA2010 is to be treated as ‘exposing themselves’!

Readers when you see it, you cannot unsee it. But there you are…

Male people’s feelings prioritised over female people’s needs. Right here on this thread.

The entitlement and privilege is off the scale for both female people who have never had to deal with the issues that others do. And for the male people they prioritise.

I'm sorry. Some of the posters on this thread think that men's comfort matters more than yours.

Nobody has yet explained why.

Can any of the posters defending men's rights to use women's spaces explain why men's comfort and wishes over ride women's comfort and wishes?

Why should men who don't want to use men's spaces get to use women's spaces? That means that women who need a single sex space don't get a choice, because their space now has males in it.

I'm not being clever, I genuinely don't understand why you see men's wishes as more important than women's. Would really like to hear your reasoning.

Just to be clear, mothers who have NO alternative toilets available to them to toilet themselves in a cubicle where they cannot close the door due to their child’s needs or to clean up their clothes in a female single sex toilet in the basin area are EXPOSING themselves according to some posters!

Women with infants and toddlers… just fucking stay home!

Right here on the Feminism board of a site called Mumsnet!

Once you see the misogyny, you cannot unsee it.

but to suggest that trans women as a group pose a unique risk is simply not supported by evidence.

They are men, men as a group pose a risk to women as a group.

The majority of the British population see your male friends as men, not women.

I’d leave.

Op says they see their male friends as men even with a trans id. This may not be what was intended 🤣)