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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

What would you actually do if you saw a transperson in the wrong toilet/changing room for their sex?

1000 replies

FattyMcFattyArse · 24/08/2025 18:47

I've been pondering this ever since the FWS decision and since I saw an obviously male transperson using the ladies at a service station. I initially froze and wanted to say something, but all my Britishness and female social conditioning made me just mutter under my breath and walk away in disgust.

What would you do?

What have you done?

What is the right thing to do?

They don't belong there, according to the law.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
39
jawsnsharks · 25/08/2025 18:28

Gerontophobia is alive and well in addition to misogyny.

Dominoeffecter · 25/08/2025 18:28

Petitchat · 25/08/2025 17:06

And don't forget I received a laughing emoji because of my concern about men possibly waiting at the sink for women.

How could anyone forget when you continue to bang on about it. The laughing emoji was for the lack of elaboration, the horror of a trans woman by the sink and nothing further added. Get over it and find something to do, it’s been such a beautiful day, what a waste.

Barbie222 · 25/08/2025 18:29

I would leave immediately and flag it to the venue because sadly, although I’m sure there are people who just want to go to the loo there is always that chance that ‘material is being gathered’ - if it’s flagged, might be possible to stop things in time

Dominoeffecter · 25/08/2025 18:29

This reply has been deleted

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Dominoeffecter · 25/08/2025 18:30

Petitchat · 25/08/2025 16:55

Come on. Man up!!

Pathetic.

Helleofabore · 25/08/2025 18:36

ArabellaScott · 25/08/2025 17:20

CPS data shows that around 91% of those convicted of sexual offences in England and Wales are male.

Which year are you taking this from, please? The figure is usually closer to 99%.

However, unfortunately data has been corrupted by recent data gathering practises. If a police force records the perp by self declared 'gender identity' rather than sex, then some crimes committed by 'females' have actually been committed by 'transwomen' - i.e. men. This means that all of this data is now meaningless in terms of sex, because some police don't differentiate 'cis' from 'trans'. They just record 'male' or 'female' - and some forces are or were recording men as 'female' if the man said they were female.

Isn’t the 91% ‘adult’ male people?

I believe that is rather important to point out if it is as I remember

Shortshriftandlethal · 25/08/2025 18:40

Let's stop referring to people who adopt trans identities as if they are some unique or third kind of human being. We are all either male or female, and we come in all shapes, sizes and 'arrangements'. Transwomen are, by definition, male people.....as in men.Singles sex services, spaces and categories are meant for people of the sex that has been designated as such.

If male people are uncomfortable with the facility that has been provided for them then they should campaign for a third, discrete facility...just like every other group has had to do for theirs. Women and girls have rights and protections too...and they also have dignity in their sex. If a woman is happy to use unisex facilities that is her choice, but she cannot consent to that on behalf of other women.

We have such spaces for a reason. That reason still exists.

Jackreacherstrousers · 25/08/2025 18:45

I'm afraid I would leave the vicinity.
The whole issue of men in women's spaces is a safety one for me. If I chose to use a unisex toilet or even the men's (in absolute desperation) I am aware of the risk I might be taking so that's on me, if however I'm using a female toilet I don't expect to have to deal with the potential risk of a male being in there.
I would report him to security or staff.

Lins77 · 25/08/2025 18:46

Dominoeffecter · 25/08/2025 15:34

Poor kid, I don’t know the facts of that case so I’ll go and look it up, presumably you are saying that there were adult women in the toilet that stood by and let it happen?

Seriously - you presume women stood by and watched a child get sexually assaulted in a toilet and did nothing? Why on earth would you presume that?

Dominoeffecter · 25/08/2025 18:49

Lins77 · 25/08/2025 18:46

Seriously - you presume women stood by and watched a child get sexually assaulted in a toilet and did nothing? Why on earth would you presume that?

Because we are being told this is what happens when we turn a blind eye to transwomen in toilets.

Lins77 · 25/08/2025 18:50

Dominoeffecter · 25/08/2025 18:49

Because we are being told this is what happens when we turn a blind eye to transwomen in toilets.

Are the public toilets you use always full of women standing around? I've been in many where I was the only person there.

Edited to add I don't understand your argument. Toilets are safe because there are always people around? But there aren't.

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 25/08/2025 18:52

Petitchat · 25/08/2025 14:14

Can't they 'pass' in their own toilet?
Why do we have to make way for men?
ANY men??

it’s more that if woman are unbothered by men in the ladies loss they are under no obligation to object. Indeed women who are bothered are under no obligation either

there are plenty of women who are ok with men in the ladies (I think they’re misguided and they think I am, it’s ok). Provided such women are respectful of the wishes of other women I really fail to see the issue

Dominoeffecter · 25/08/2025 19:00

Lins77 · 25/08/2025 18:50

Are the public toilets you use always full of women standing around? I've been in many where I was the only person there.

Edited to add I don't understand your argument. Toilets are safe because there are always people around? But there aren't.

Edited

What?? You’ve totally misinterpreted this.

Dominoeffecter · 25/08/2025 19:02

I didn’t say any of that! We are being told we are wrong for not pouncing on transwomen using the womens toilets lest they attack people.

Lins77 · 25/08/2025 19:10

Dominoeffecter · 25/08/2025 19:02

I didn’t say any of that! We are being told we are wrong for not pouncing on transwomen using the womens toilets lest they attack people.

I don't think that's what is being said. People are pointing out that there have been attacks in women's toilets by male bodied trans people, contrary to some posters' assertions that transwomen are never any risk. That's not to say all transwomen, or all men, are dangerous, obviously they are not. But how do we know which ones are?

I wouldn't "pounce" on anyone, I doubt I'd be that brave.

ArabellaScott · 25/08/2025 19:10

Dominoeffecter · 25/08/2025 19:02

I didn’t say any of that! We are being told we are wrong for not pouncing on transwomen using the womens toilets lest they attack people.

Its not pouncing on anyone to say that men must stay out of women's spaces. And its not just about attacks - many women will suffer other harms, from PTSD to self exclusion.

ArabellaScott · 25/08/2025 19:12

Ask yourself why men calling themselves 'trans' dont want to use men's spaces.

Then ask why they're entitled to avoid men but women aren't.

RufustheFactualReindeer · 25/08/2025 19:12

Lins77 · 25/08/2025 19:10

I don't think that's what is being said. People are pointing out that there have been attacks in women's toilets by male bodied trans people, contrary to some posters' assertions that transwomen are never any risk. That's not to say all transwomen, or all men, are dangerous, obviously they are not. But how do we know which ones are?

I wouldn't "pounce" on anyone, I doubt I'd be that brave.

Absolutely right

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 25/08/2025 19:13

Dominoeffecter · 25/08/2025 19:02

I didn’t say any of that! We are being told we are wrong for not pouncing on transwomen using the womens toilets lest they attack people.

Nobody has said that.

The reality is that most of us would not confront a trans identifying man in a female only space for the same reason that we wouldn't ask a bloke who looks rough as fuck to stop playing his shitty music through loud speakers in the quiet carriage.

Keeptoiletssafe · 25/08/2025 19:15

ThatCalmCat · 25/08/2025 16:55

I’ve made several friendships over the last few years with trans people whilst studying a Fine Art degree. It seems that creative courses are often popular with trans and non-binary people, perhaps because self-expression, acceptance, and inclusion are central to both art and identity. And rightly so – those are needs every human being has.

None of my trans friends pose any kind of risk to anyone in bathrooms. In fact, the risk is far more likely to be to them rather than from them. Research has found that almost half of trans people in Britain avoid using public toilets for fear of harassment or assault.

Realistically, unless someone leaves the cubicle door wide open, what do people think is going to happen in a bathroom?

And if the argument is really about “men being predatory”, then why are there no rules or laws preventing young boys from sharing toilets with adult men? Clearly, that would be recognised as homophobic. So why is it somehow considered acceptable to push transphobic restrictions under the same logic?

Weaponising feminism to justify hostility towards trans people is not only misguided – it also distracts from real issues of violence against women. If people are truly concerned about attacks in toilets, where is the evidence that incidents involving trans people are on the rise? There isn’t any.

The reality is that trans people make up a very small percentage of the population (less than 1%), yet they face disproportionately high levels of violence and discrimination. According to government and police data, hate crimes against trans people in England and Wales increased by 56% between 2020 and 2022. By contrast, there is no evidence of trans people posing a systemic danger to others.

Meanwhile, the overwhelming majority of sexual violence is committed by cisgender men: CPS data shows that around 91% of those convicted of sexual offences in England and Wales are male.

So if the real concern is protecting people from sexual violence, we need to be honest about where the actual risk lies.

‘So if the real concern is protecting people from sexual violence, we need to be honest about where the actual risk lies.’

That’s what I have been doing for the last few years. The conclusion I have come to, supported by medical and scientific data, newspaper reports, discussions with manufacturers, toilet designers, charities, government departments inc HSE (and common sense) is that as many public toilets should be single sex with the safety gaps above and below the doors.

If you have to have any mixed sex/ unisex/ universal toilets they should be in highly visible places and monitored ideally by an attendant but at least cctv which is visible. Unfortunately because of politeness/embarrassment/fear, people do not intervene so the actual risk of being harmed is still greater in a mixed sex toilet because they are private.

Single sex toilet designs are also private if it is ambiguous as to whether they are single sex or if the area in front of the cubicle is mixed sex.

Also with studies, you have to really analyse them. For example, the Stonewall for a public consultation for Document T (building regs for toilets), a few years ago. Stonewall very effectively got lots of people to write in which is fine in itself. But look at the detail and it skewed the results when it came to safety. 79% of responses mentioned safety concerns for trans/non-binary people and 75% mentioned safety concerns for women. Fewer than 5% of responses mentioned safety concerns for one of the following groups: girls, children, men, disabled people, and boys.

Stonewall UK’s LGBT in Britain – Trans Report (2018), was cited in 11,866 responses. This is 67% of the total number of responses for the consultation.

Stonewall encouraged people to mention their report which looked at a survey of a 733 people identifying as trans from 2017. In it, it stated 48% of transgender people felt uncomfortable using a public toilet. It listed two examples both when people were shouted at, and one where two women pushed a person to get out of the ladies.

I am not condoning this, but these two incidences must be put into context of health and safety for the population as a whole. It throws out some anomalies as well as 51% of the LGBT population are disabled according to the Stonewall report, but in the Doc T analysis only 2% of people appeared to be supportive of ‘disabled’ toilets.

Another more recent report by a cleaning company said 80% of people felt uncomfortable using a public toilet. This time they mentioned hygiene as a big problem. This does not mean anything in relation to Stonewall but just shows how toilet needs analysis are problematical. We need unbiased datasets based on actual incidents.

In the same time period all the sexual assaults were by men on women, girls and boys. Look at my previous posts for the statistics of sexual assaults in schools and hospitals.

Deaths in public toilets are men, women, boys and girls. I have examples in hospitals, schools, supermarkets etc. I don’t have a national database because no one does. Deaths and sexual assaults in toilets aren’t recorded nationally. The ones I have are from private toilets.

It’s good you are thinking of boys safety. That’s why men should go to men’s toilets which should have door gaps too so men aren’t so likely to take a boy into a cubicle. It’s also why women should be able to take their sons to the ladies.

Dominoeffecter · 25/08/2025 19:16

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 25/08/2025 19:13

Nobody has said that.

The reality is that most of us would not confront a trans identifying man in a female only space for the same reason that we wouldn't ask a bloke who looks rough as fuck to stop playing his shitty music through loud speakers in the quiet carriage.

So the harassment has been over nothing then?? Ridiculous

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 25/08/2025 19:19

Dominoeffecter · 25/08/2025 19:16

So the harassment has been over nothing then?? Ridiculous

What on earth are you on about now?

jawsnsharks · 25/08/2025 19:20

obtuseness is a great strategy.

Helleofabore · 25/08/2025 19:20

Why are we in this position where we are having to discuss this in the first place?

No male people over about 8 yrs old in female single sex toilets. It was what we as female people expected for the mere decades we have had public toilets available to us. It is available to us under legitimate discrimination for safeguarding, privacy and dignity included.

Why should any female be shamed in any way for wanting this?

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