Anne health Susie Greens new clinic

[Hoardasurass]

So not happy with the puberty blockers ban in the UK and frustrated by Wes Streeting closing her planned loophole she found a new one and has been arranging for parents to take their kids abroad to get prescriptions of puberty blockers injections and testosterone for under 16s. The government has said its going to stop the practice but hasn't said how.

Gift token for the telegraph article

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/d5a10834b446c428

That paragraph backs up what I’ve said. Puberty blockers should be subject to the same individual assessment of capacity as any other medical decision. Ie it is for clinicians to determine capacity on a case by case basis.

Stating that civil action is a possibility if they get that wrong is nothing new. Again it applies in respect of every Gillick decision a clinician makes (or indeed to every decision). The point here is that the Court found against the argument that there should be any blanket approach or assumption that children could not consent to puberty blockers.

You are constantly determined to misrepresent my views on this. There is no ‘mask’ and I’m sure everyone else can perfectly understand what I was saying.

You seem unable to defend your views despite them supporting direct harm (which you casually dismiss and minimise) and will lead to much more.

You are desperate to derail this thread - why?

In your desperation to (repeatedly) misrepresent and twist what I said, you missed the fact that I pointed out the NHS is reluctant to sterilise MEN as well as women at a young age.

You call it patriarchy, I call it doctors applying the experience they have gained by treating people.

But I’m not misrepresenting anything.

You were explicit in saying that women under 30 lack the capacity to consent to sterilisation.

Your application of that to men isn’t particularly relevant since I’m sure it won’t have escaped your notice that unwanted pregnancies affect women differently than men such that the warped approach to capacity has a far worse impact on women than men.

That is what makes your view patriarchal.

What bit of your views have I misrepresented when it comes to women’s capacity to consent to sterilisation under the age of 30?

You keep claiming I am misrepresenting them, but you have said that you support a system that tells women they lack that capacity. What is misrepresented in that?

As I said in my previous post, judges are not medical experts. But it shouldn't really take any medical expertise to understand that children who are not yet sexually mature cannot understand what it would be like to be an adult whose sexual function is impaired, nor can they have an adult understanding of being infertile.

The medical position was set out in the Cass review, which was written by a medical expert. The government has made laws according to this medical position. Susie Green (also not a medical expert) has decided to try to circumvent those laws, which is what this thread is about. She needs to be stopped as her actions are still harming children.

@PlanetJanette can you explain what you believe to be the purpose of medical treatment for transgenderism?

Proponents of transgenderism now say that it is nothing to do with stereotypes. They also say that a person's gender is unrelated to their sex. So gender seems to be something that just happens in their heads. Gender also lacks any objective description of what it actually is, other than something which makes people unhappy and want to change their bodies.

With that in mind, if a person with a male or masculine gender identity can have either a male or female body, and someone with a female or feminine gender identity can have either a female or male body, why the need to go to such lengths to change the appearance of one's body to match their gender identity?

Why not just accept the bodies we are born with, and inhabit them with whatever 'gender' (or personality) that we like?

The UK government banned puberty blockers, following a major review of the clinical data by one of the country's most senior paediatricians which found the evidence for their use was "weak". This banned medication is now being advertised as available abroad by a UK national. UK taxpayers will be paying for the NHS to deal with the physical and mental health consequences of this.

These are the facts that need to be discussed.

Presumably the UK has limited powers if the UK national is breaking the law outside the UK?

Correct.
However its considered a crime against humanity to sterilise children.
Giving children puberty blockers and/or cross sex hormones sterilises them.
There is no reliable evidence base that it is "clinically indicated" to give puberty blockers and/or cross sex hormones to children

There needs to be a law, similar to that for FGM, that anyone taking a child outside the UK for this treatment can be prosecuted.

Just as well you’re wrong to say that puberty blockers sterilise children then. They do not.

What do you not understand about sexual development during puberty?

If a child takes puberty blockers during puberty they don't become sexually mature. If they then take cross sex hormones they will never become sexually mature, so have effectively been sterilised.

The only way for a child not to be sterilised by puberty blockers is for them to stop taking them and go through puberty naturally. This only happened to one child in the Tavistock's experiment on children, so all the others were sterilised.

Oh yes they do! Puberty blockers sterilise children by preventing puberty. If you don't go through puberty then you are sterile & unable to conceive/impregnate as appropriate.

Jeez, it’s hard to understand how we can be this many years into this debate and someone who pops up on threads regularly still doesn’t understand what puberty blockers do to children.

Puberty blockers absolutely sterilise children.

Side note from the above, but 'Anne' means mother in Turkish.

If that's Green's intent, I find it really creepy - particularly considering what she did to her own child.

No I didn’t explicitly say that. And it’s not patriarchal to point out that doctors know that people (both men and women) change their minds and the distress caused by not being able to have a child when you want one is huge.

What seems particularly brutal is that you support anyone, (including children), making irreversible decisions about their bodies and any regret is entirely their own fault. You dismiss the cases of Keira and Ritchie - blaming them for their harm as they were over 18 and also argue for under 18s to harm their bodies.

As the government has banned the use of puberty blockers to prevent puberty, do you think it acceptable that Susie Green gas set up a company that deliberately circumvents the law?

Yes it’s quite mind blowing how determined some people are to support these activists harming children and vulnerable young people and it’s just tough luck if they realise they made a wrong decision and ruined their health and fertility.

I agree that we need a law similar to the FGM law, or even an extension if the FGM law to prevent this.

Feminism centres women and girls. It does not have to align with certain political ideologies in order to do that. I personally gave up talking about 'the patriarchy' a long time ago. That doesn't make me incapable of choice or decision making on my own behalf.

If you ever been pregnant, had a termination, given birth to children and then looked after them you will understand that there is really no such thing as ultimate autonomy over one's body or one's actions. We all have to make choices within certain sets of conditions that are not of our choosing. And we all exist within a network of relations.

The body: its physical and biological processes and that which results from them are one of the things that are not of our choosing. And male and fermale bodies and biology are different - each with their own innate teleology.

They do.
If a child is given puberty blockers at tanner stages 1 or 2 and takes them for years they will not go through puberty and as such are effectively sterilised. If a female who has started her periods takes puberty blockers for over 6 months she risks going into permanent premature menopause (check out the leaflet that comes with them for women with endometriosis) again effectively sterilising them.
So not im not wrong, puberty blockers do sterilise children

I think they realise very well what PB do to children, the real question is why would they support it?

The problem is that making statements doesn't make them real...

• trans people exist - no - there are people, men and women who apply a label of trans with an objective behind adopting that label. There is no such thing as a 'trans' adult
• trans kids exist - no - there are adults who label children as trans, but there is no such thing as a 'trans' kid

You claim objective facts - so let's understand the real meaning of words - not their misuse:

• Transition - A passing or passage from one condition, action, or (rarely) place, to another; change. (1545–)

So this has pre-requisites to be accurately used:

• A starting condition
• A end condition
• A difference between the two conditions such that there is change from one condition to the other.

Let's examine the concept of transition / trans in terms of 'sex' and as an example the concept of a man becoming a woman:

• Starting condition = man / boy / male
• End condition - doesn't matter what you do to that person, whether you give them hormones or surgery - or whether they simply self-ID as being the other sex - makes no difference, you still have the original man / boy / male - you can never create a woman / girl / female. You might now have a man without hi normal genitals, he might even have a fake entry to look like a vulva, hormones might have given him bigger man-boobs or moobs - but at no point, whatever you do does he become a she
• As the end condition (man / boy / male) is the same as the starting condition (man / boy / male) - no transition has taken place.

Let's examine the concept of transition / trans in terms of 'gender' and the concept of a man living as a woman.

• A man and a woman are defined by gametes / sexual organs / etc. - not how they live - how you cross your legs / whether you wear a skirt / application of makeup - none of those make a man or woman.
• We know and encourage children in a world where we wish to reduce stereotypes that they can be the shape of boy / girl they wish - girls can be astronauts or builders, boys can be nurses or the stay-at-home parent. Either can climb trees or play with dolls, dressing up is available to both, as is woodworking or needlework. Your job and the activities you do don't define you.
• Society has stereotypes for men and women - a snapshot in time of those stereotypes defines gender at that point, however it is fluid as we know from history - high heels first came into the country for men, who in regency time also wore stockings / makeup and jewellery / pink was considered a boys' colour and blue for girls until early 20th century when it reversed - and many other examples.
• A man who lives outside his 'gender' (i.e. a man in the 21st century wearing high heels and a skirt, with makeup as one example) hasn't adopted the female gender - instead, they are simply pushing or changing social norms and boundaries for their own gender - if enough of them do it, they don't all become women, but the social stereotype changes. Stereotypes are observed, they don't create the person.
• So it is not possible to move from one gender to another - you simply change the shape of your born gender - no transition of gender is possible.

So, it is remarkably clear that it is not possible to transition sex or gender - so the concept of a 'trans' person doesn't actually exist - so why do people use it as a label?

• Mental Health illness - there is clear evidence that as bodies can not be changed and sex can not be changed, there is no such thing as physically having the wrong body - so when there is a mismatch between how the person feels and the sex they were born, it is of the brain. While there can unintentionally be a stigma in labelling issues as mental illnesses, to understand mental health and to recognise that it can go wrong (illness) or be healthy is of vital importance to society
• Gender Dysphoria - there is a very real problem for some that they dislike their body / feel that they are born in the wrong body / etc. However, as above, this is a mental health illness, and treatment is not physical mutilation of the body - they can never be the opposite sex, so dealing with the real issue is important.
• Transvestism - this has a simple etymology: trans (as we have seen above - change) and vest from vestments - so change of clothes - it is simply someone (normally a man) who likes to wear the clothes which are stereotypically associated with the other sex. As we have seen above, this simply expands gender boundaries, it doesn't make a man into a woman.
• AGP - sex based games for erotic purposes - certainly not appropriate for children, and rarely appropriate for those (mainly men) who partake.
• Other - other agendas which are suspected and fairly evident - such as anti-women agendas etc.

Conclusion

• The objective facts you list are not facts.
• 'Trans' as a concept for sex change does not exist - you can not change sex
• 'Trans' as a concept for gender change does not exist - you can not change gender
• We need to be more empathetic to those with genuine issues who are perhaps being overlooked (or mutilated) rather than being dealt with appropriately...

Yes. Some of the puberty blocker ghouls were offering sperm or egg preservation in response to the issue of them sterilising children.

Wasn’t there a court case a few years ago where the mother of a young man who sadly died suddenly and unexpectedly after taking puberty blockers and cross sex hormones was trying to use his sperm to produce a grandchild? Or she was complaining in the papers that she wasn’t allowed to - my memory is a little hazy.

This one from 2020?

As usual, the BBC refers to the dead son as "she" and "daughter", leading to nonsense phrases like "her sperm".

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-53889359.amp

They weren't though. No children were sterilised.

Adults made the decision to go onto cross sex hormones which will have impacted fertility.