Who‘s coming to FiLIA?

[lanadelgrey]

I‘m starting to get excited.
Are there plans for a MN meetup?

*ArcheryAnnie" if you email FiLiA as I have, you'll receive an auto reply that says pretty much that.

The fact that there are women who FiLiA do not approve of is exactly why they should be given space. Otherwise FiLiA is just 'Ladies Who Lunch'.

I don't see that one follows the other. KJK doesn't approve of FiLiA, either, and that's fine, too (though I don't see how calling them "arseholes" gets us any further). As this thread amply demonstrates, we had plenty of disagreement to go around last weekend, without making it "ladies who lunch".

I think we need to be careful about expecting one organisation to be all things to all people. FiLIA is a feminist organisation; Kellie Jay Keene has said many times she's not a feminist.

I rate KJK - I think she's brave and speaks sense. I don't like the increasing undercurrent of racism in some of her public videos, and I'm further to the left than she is. Her voice can be pretty extreme at times, but we need people on the edges to push the mainstream (just look at how effective that's been for TRAs over the last decade!)

But FiLIA is under no obligation to offer space to someone who is so openly not a feminist. Yes, it would have been great to have her there. WDI, a radical feminist organisation, invited her to the 2024 conference and she was fantastic - very straightforward, reasonable and pleasant, even in a haven of socialist radfems.

I don't like the increasing undercurrent of racism in some of her public videos

That's absolute rot, decrying the invasion of Islamism into our country is not racism.

Have you ever attended a FiLIA event @MurkyWeather2 or a WPUK, or a Fairplay for Women?

I remember going to a WPUK (or Fairplay for Women, can't quite recall) in Bristol way back in early 2017 when I was under the cosh of transactivists (who were trying to get me sacked), and KJK was there. There is far more to all of these organisations than "ladies who lunch." That phrasing actually displays a fair bit of ignorance about what all of these organisations do, try to do, and set out to achieve.

You don't have to agree with everything, but it'd be nice if you didn't use sexist slurs.

KJK must be dangerous if they cant have approved guests showing art mentioning her.

Little bit over the top and controlling?

It was last night. I am amplifying this because it is not trivial. As an organisation they are thoroughly and unapologetically antisemitic- and yet FILiA invited them. THEY say because FILiA knew their views. I would like clarification. FILiA needs to b3 held to account for this. If antisemitism runs through them like the “Blackpool” in Blackpool rock then I know a lot of women who will want nothing more to do with them.

That's helpful to hear, thank you.

A lot of the criticism of FiLiA on this thread has been that they haven't been controlling enough.

@ParmaVioletTea a haven of socialist radfems.

Good, now I can see where FiLiA is coming from. That's ok, I just don't understand why they don't own it. I'm sure all you very clever, OGfeminists all know the score but some of us are relatively new to this

You don't have to agree with everything, but it'd be nice if you didn't use sexist slurs.

Oh noes, did I say a wrong thing? Bad woman

👀

https://x.com/roseveniceallan/status/1978731615938376151?s=46&t=PSGltfjrMyZmBtYq2-AVIQ

@ParmaVioletTea Have you ever attended a FiLIA event or a WPUK, or a Fairplay for Women?

No, this is the point! I haven't been to any feminist events. I am an unexciting woman who dabbled with socialism and feminism back in the day and found that neither were for me because, even back then, you had to ally yourself with Palestine and the IRA and, in my local Labour Party, you had to agree with all the men or say nothing. I am a centrist, floating voter now who drags herself to the polling booth to set an example to her kids even though I sometimes still don't know who to vote for when I get there.
I do, however, live my life according to 'feminist' principles and done a lot of good for the cause as a result. I have been radicalised/re-radicalised by the assault on women's rights and child safeguarding by gender ideology and, through MN and Sex Matters and WRN and Reduxx, become aware of the massive issues with sex trafficking, pornography and so on.
Does FiLiA want women like me at their conferences? If so, they should be open about having a socialist slant and I will come with an open mind. Don't hide it away; own it. Then the failure to platform some women will make a lot more sense.
Or maybe, if they really want to grow feminism, expand FiLiA to cater for all the women who aren't socialists and don't put their politics before their feminism

I forced myself to watch the videos and view the photos of 7th October, including photos of the remains. The men who did that are worse than animals and should be roundly condemned every time a feminist speaks about the conflict

I was referring to WDI as a place of radical feminists - which tends to ally with socialist feminism, but not always. Not FiLIA. FiLIA tends to be much more catholic.

And I think that that principle got a bit out of control.

Rest assured, there were many dissenters from the incidents of Jew hatred at FiLIA. The pro-Palestininan demonstration was outside the event venue - mixing it with the TRAs - which tells me something.

I tend to think that it's a really tricky feminist conundrum as a Western woman, encountering Islamic feminists - there is actually a growing Islamic feminist movement. The women involved often wear modest dress, including head scarves. I hate the ideology behind that practice, but I also need to respect other women's self-determination. It's a bit of a double-think - an example of the classical liberal dilemma perhaps

And I think part of what happened at FiLIA (certainly what I saw, as I was there) was that some people wanted absolute boundaries about this. As do some posters on this thread.

Does FiLiA want women like me at their conferences? If so, they should be open about having a socialist slant and I will come with an open mind. Don't hide it away; own it.

Sorry I missed this.

As far as I can see, after going to 3 FiLIA conferences, and getting their newsletters & listening to their podcasts (and donating) they want any woman who wants to attend a grassroots feminist event to be there.

And "grassroots" means that there will be all sorts of "slants" - there were over 10 parallel sessions or workshops at any one time during the 3 days, covering all sorts of topics. I think you can go to their website & download a PDF of the programme and see.

I'll give you the same advice as you gave me upthread, @MurkyWeather2 : get a grip. If, as you claim, you really are new to all of this, you will have to get used to the idea that we do challenge one another, all the time (and that's a feature, not a bug), and that if you insist on using tired old sexist tropes straight out of the 1970s - such as dismissing 2,500 feminists as "ladies who lunch" - then you can expect to be called out on it. What you do with that is, of course, entirely up to you, but that's what's on the table.

No, it is not trivial but you don't have to share screenshots of extreme anti-Zionism to reference antisemitism - it's everywhere.

This org has already said that FiLiA do not share all of their views, meaning they support the radfem elements but not the Maoist/antisemitism. I do not believe that they knew they would be bringing those booklets to their stall.

And I don't see what sharing it like this achieved. I've seen it shared by women who have been in left wing spaces for decades where they'll have seen obscure booklets with this shit in published by tiny, extremist groups which few people, other than those that belong to the unit, extremist group will ever read.

What I haven't seen - and I hope did happen - is a sense that women tried to talk to the stall holder (other than Feminist Dissent who interacted with her). All this mindless sharing does is push extremists into more extreme positions, which is the last thing we need in women's spaces and more general society at the moment.

These women are young and still learning. What they've learnt isn't that women who find this material distressing will sit down and talk with them, which was a huge missed opportunity by the photo takers and SM sharers, IMVHO.

Yes, I can agree with this and thank you for your thoughtful reply. I wonder if those of us who are not socialists but would also like to consider themselves part of the feminist movement are causing a similar classical liberal dilemma.

If, as you claim, you really are new to all of this
No, obviously, I'm a secret TRA sent from reddit to disrupt feminism

What you do with that is, of course, entirely up to you, but that's what's on the table.
Is it though? That's what is on your table, but on my table is a Whatsapp group of friends which is actually named "Ladies who Lunch". You are never going to win over ordinary women with that sort of speech policing. Save it for the men

So, you're allowed to speech police, @MurkyWeather2 , but the rest of us aren't. Understood.

This org has already said that FiLiA do not share all of their views, meaning they support the radfem elements but not the Maoist/antisemitism. I do not believe that they knew they would be bringing those booklets to their stall.

How strange then that FiLiA knew exactly what artwork Vigaro were intending to display and told them not to display the one piece which was of an LWS event and included a portrayal of the founder of those events and yet were completely unaware of the booklets on that stall. Due diligence for some and not others?

When the leadership/organisers were made aware of those leaflets, what did they do? As far as I can tell absolutely nothing, no insistence on removal of those leaflets or indeed the stall itself, no statement disavowing the leafltets, nada.

Many of the the leadership/organisers take great delight in tearing down KJK for the people who speak at the open mic LWS events, Those events take place in a public space, meaning any member of the public can attend and the events can be filmed by absolutey anyone due to the public nature of them. KJK is apparently responsible and accountable for that even though there is nothing KJK can do to prevent it. Yet this FiLiA conference which is ticketed, held inside a venue and gives permission to those who wish to set up a stall there somehow the leadership/organisers are not accountable and couldn't possibly know what the stall holders have on their stalls nor their views and when alerted to it just shrug their shoulders unless of course it is one piece of artwork featuring an image of KJK.

Doube standards and hypocrisy and the continuing silence speaks volumes.

Are Reddit TRAs coordinating now? I don’t know

Crikey. A speech policing spiral.

Never mind. I shall disappear and leave you all alone to contine with whatever it is you are trying to achieve without women like me. Good luck with improving the lot of women. I mean that sincerely