Why are so many GC women pro-Israel?

[Krakinou]

This is a feminist forum. It’s in the name. I’m a feminist, therefore logically atheist and frankly anti-religion. Certainly against any kind of religious nationalism (Christian, Hindu, Muslim, Jewish, Buddhist, etc.)

But surely feminism is about liberation for all women, not just the ones we agree with? The destruction of patriarchal structures, not of women and children who are conditioned by them?

I constantly see snarky comments in GC articles about Gaza and dehumanizing comments about Palestinians and Muslims generally on this board. And minimizing of the suffering of the tens of thousands of people being murdered in an internationally recognized genocide. I don’t get it. It seems out of sync with the general mumsnet feeling too - I get the impression most people on mumsnet are pretty horrified by Israel’s actions.

Does anyone else get the same impression? If so, what is the connection between being Gender Critical and being anti-Palestine? Is it just that the leftist terfs aren’t so represented here?

I’m in a feminist group in Spain and it doesn’t have the same issue at all.

If Hamas cared about its own people then it would not embed itself amongst civilians; in hospitals, in camps, in schools...in the way that it does. Why do none of the pro - Palestine lot ever talk about Hamas tactics; about the way that Hamas executes its own people; steals food from the aid trucks; acts like a mafia. About the way that Hamas deploys booby traps all over the place, and on a daily baisis continues to fire missiles into Israel?

I sometimes think it would be good if laws around war were covered in classes around politics in school, or pehaps taught as part of history, whatever.

I am not sure of people realise that things like embedding spys or soldiers in Red Cross relief, or intelligence interrogators pretending to be padres, or storing weapons in hospitals, are all illegal under these laws, and for very good reason.

The reason is that for humanitarian reasons nations agree to allow certain kinds of things to happen even in war. Distribution of aid to civilians. Medical care. POWs to talk to spiritual advisers. And so on. We see these are very important things and we believe, for example, that civilians should be safe while in hospital.

But as soon as people start to break these rules, that whole system of protections and humanitarian concerns breaks down very quickly. What do people think happens when it turns out a Red Cross truck is carrying ammunition, or the MSF doctor is actually a spy, or the rockets being sent into the town are coming from a hospital?

What happens is those become legitimate military targets, there is no other possible outcome, that has to be the response in a war, you can't just let those things happen because if a conflict is that serious, it is serious enough that losing is not an option.

And the people at fault for those humanitarian spaces and missions becoming military targets are the fuckers breaking the rules which are very clearly laid out to prevent that.

I am very sorry for the people, especially the children who are totally innocent. But the war criminals here are Hamas and those who fund them to do these things. The stupid westerners who seem to want to enable these war crimes against their own people pass deserve a lot of fault too.

What several nations want isn't really relevant, it's the ones who won't let it go that matter.

I don't see any reason to think those people will ever go away. It's part of their core ideology.

They will continue to push and there is only one ultimate outcome. They will cease to exist or they will be successful.

It's nothing to do with what Israel should or should not do or anyone expects.

I wouldn't say a miracle can't happen I suppose, that would be faithless, but empirically there seems to be zero evidence that there is a political path out of it.

As long as Israel exists, it's won.

Golda Meir“ Only when Palestinians love their children more than they hate us,will there be peace.”

"If the Arabs lay down their weapons, there will be no war. If Israel lays down its weapons, there'll be no Israel."

I wonder if people are finally starting to understand that Hamas absolutely loves dead Gazans almost as much as it loves dead Jews. I thought October 7 would hammer home what indescribably evil death cultists they were for anyone who somehow still hadn't worked it out, but apparently it took a bit more than that. And now people are still wondering how anyone who supports women's single sex spaces for changing rooms, rape centres and sports could also be supportive of the opponents of that racist, misogynistic, homophobic, coffin-parading, hostage-taking, murderous death cult. What a mystery.

Exactly. I still think that food aid must be allowed in, but I know very well that the problems are all due to Hamas, and the decisions being taken must be agonising..as many seem to ignore.

Honestly, I wish we could forcibly airlift the Gazans to a remote island where they could be deradicalised. Obvs impossible, but what I mean is that I can't see how we can safely save people...it's horrible, maybe there is a way but everyone seems stumped unless they're ignoring the complexities...

Those people- is this Hamas or Palestinians as a whole?

Perhaps not, but there are still bloodthirsty idiots and (imo) ar@&holes on both sides. What about this guy for instance? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/aug/17/israeli-general-aharon-haliva-palestinians-7-october-gaza

I've read your posts before on this...and sadly I agree. I just think Israel was fundamentally unstable from the foundation. I know a lot of Jewish people say they feel safer there than in Europe or the US but I just don't see how this can be true, however people feel psychologically. I also can't understand why the government is encouraging Jews to move there- it is clearly less safe than Europe, US etc, how can they in good conscience encourage more settlers?

Sometimes I think the idea of an Israel in South America would have worked much better, but obvs that destroys the idea of the Holy Land

Maybe. But I wouldn't be quick to dismiss what that will cost them from a human POV.

That's horrific about the woman being abused. I don't suppose you can remember when this video was shown on BBC roughly?

You mean Israeli Civilians? Palestinians too? I can imagine losses for both will be horrific.

And how will they ensure Hamas doesn't re-form?

It's anyone who thinks that way. Surely all of Hamas, but anyone else, not all are in Palestine. Some are yet to be born.

Others will always get caught up, that's the nature of violence.

Many Arabs were horrible to the ME Jews before Israel existed. Many ME Jews, once they had a Jewish nation, say returning that hatred as reasonable. Not surprisingly, that's human nature.

The idea that the way to solve problems like that is a state with an ethno-religious identity seems quite naive to me, I don't see how that could ever work, quite the opposite.

I've read that Hitler fed a lot of Nazi propaganda to the Arabs which the leaders have kept up with to this day. Obvs I'm sure ultrafundamentalist sects like the Wahabbi were promoting it before...

This page is v intresting & extremely scary on the 19th century rise of Arab anti semitism. I know it's Wiki, but the citations seem respectable.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AntisemitismintheArabworld

How to fix this..? As you say, some will be born, and the deaths in Gaza will be used to radicalise the next generation.

If Hamas' allies withdrew suppprt would it be able to keep going? I don't suppose they will though, certainly not right now...

I mean spiritually. Even killing someone in self-defence impacts people, and if it's a hard scrabble sort of situation like in a war people often never recover properly.

That's also true I think of a people or nation. How do you reconcile yourself to having destroyed another people so your own could survive, even if the others were more at fault? How does that affect how you think about what it means to be a member of your group? Post WWII there were many people who felt their Jewish identity as being survivors of persecution by stronger people, sometimes that even takes on a religious perspective around the idea of suffering. But I wonder how that looks when that ethnic or religious identity is closely tied to overcoming adversity with military or violent action?

None of that is about what was the best moral and pragmatic action, it's about the human effects of those actions.

Maybe there is no choice so it's not worth thinking about, but I've seen enough people massively affected by military actions to think it is.

It's also sad to read of the pre-17th century more positive Jewish-Muslim relations in the Ottoman empire. Why did everything have to go so wrong?

I repeat, I have never seen a group of Jews or Israel supporters openly celebrating the deaths of Gazans. And I do not think hunting out a single talking head is equivalent to some of the group scenes I saw, unsolicited (they were out and about, they wanted to be seen) after and even during October 7.

If you must do the "but both sides" thing (and by trying to draw this false equivalence, you are making it very clear which side you are on - own it, please), then I think we need to look at which side has the most arseholes, the loudest arseholes, and the arseholes who are the most dangerous to oppose. In both the transgenderism issue and Israel/Gaza, the answer seems very clear to me.

A v powerful post...the spiritual effect must be terrible...

But is there no choice but to destroy all the Palestinians? Including children?

There should be moves to make Europe & the US & Australia etc safe for Jews so they don't feel Israel is the only place they are safe. Realistically, it will be a long long time before Israel is truly the safest place to be Jewish, and I don't think extermination of the Palestinians will help that.

(Moreover, I believe that would be totally & horribly immoral, but this was about the outcome, not the morality)

What about this 2014 article?

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/20/israelis-cheer-gaza-bombing&ved=2ahUKEwijpJnO7aGPAxXzQUEAHWx0K3UQFnoECCIQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0akQOjSoMxORwq2S5rkSdO

I'm sure they are aware of that (it's been going on for a while), but lying down and surrendering to repeat October 7s and intifadas until they are all dead isn't an option and I can't think of any other country where anyone would suggest otherwise.

Link isn't working, but it doesn't matter. We know you are actively hunting out articles where Jews or Israeli politicians have said horrible things (this one, you say, from 11 years ago), usually to immediate opposition from other Jews or Israeli politicians, and trying to suggest that this is equivalent to frequent public scenes all over the world where Jews and Israel supporters cheer and celebrate Gazan deaths. The purpose is to present your opposition to Israel while claiming that you are being fair and "both sides"-ey. That both sides are equal, per capita, in their mob supporters celebrating death, when they quite patently aren't.

You are allowed to be anti Israel but you should be honest about it.

You have not noticed that the Holy Spirit is often shown as female in the Old Testament, as a woman of wisdom and wealth, as a mother. God appears as a woman in Jesus's parallels - the widow searching for coins, personified as a mother hen protecting the chicks. This God has no sex. The Hindu pantheon has many women who are powerful and the most powerful - described as being the ocean to a puddle in comparison to Brahm, Shiv and Vishnu together - is Kali (the origin of the Black Virgins of Europe btw).
Religions are often misogynistic, that doesn't mean God is - indeed, misogyny will be one of the ways in which humankind departs from Her will.

What is this 'you'? I have done no such thing. I am simply showing one example of Israeli Civilians (not politicians) cheering the bombing of Gaza. I am not equating it with the Palestinians' behaviour, that is much worse I agree.

This is the first time I have posted such a thing, you're welcome to check my history.

This isn't just an Israel problem though. It's a global issue.
Let's consider Islamists and the misery
and suffering they've brought across the
MENA area following the collapse of the Ottoman Empire which ended with
3 genocides, the Greeks Christians and
Armenians.
We have the Muslim Brotherhood, Boko
Haram, Isis, the Taliban, al-Qaeda, Al Shabaab, Jama'at Nusrat al Islam wal Muslimeen as well as Hamas, Hezbollah and Houthis. That's off the top of my
head.
The Druze, Yazidis and Christians have all suffered genocidal violence.
I heard a Yazidi woman say that 'they were the Jews but without the weapons.'
Palestine has been made into a symbol of the power of Islam and Allah and are incapable of making peace. It is an honour culture that willingly sacrifices it's children to protect its honour.
They deliberately attacked just as Saudi Arabia was making a deal with Israel to subvert any normalisation with Arab neighbours.
They could have released the hostages and the war would have ended.

Tha Arab countries are starting to realise the threat to them of these extremists. The UN has been abysmal. Russia is playing politics.

As the sun begins to sink over the Mediterranean, groups of Israelis gather each evening on hilltops close to the Gaza border to cheer, whoop and whistle as bombs rain down on people in a hellish warzone a few miles away.

Old sofas, garden chairs, battered car seats and upturned crates provide seating for the spectators. On one hilltop, a swing has been attached to the branches of a pine tree, allowing its occupant to sway gently in the breeze. Some bring bottles of beer or soft drinks and snacks.

On Saturday, a group of men huddle around a shisha pipe. Nearly all hold up smartphones to record the explosions or to pose grinning, perhaps with thumbs up, for selfies against a backdrop of black smoke.

Despite reports that millions of Israelis are living in terror of Hamas rockets, they don't deter these hilltop war watchers whose proximity to Gaza puts them within range of the most rudimentary missiles. Some bring their children.

In the border town of Sderot, which has been struck by countless missiles from the Gaza Strip in recent years, one family gathers on a top-floor balcony, draped with an Israeli flag and banner of the army's legendary Golani Brigade. A house with a war view may even command a premium price these days.

The thud of shellfire, flash of an explosion and pall of smoke are greeted with exclamations of approval. "What a beauty," says one appreciative spectator.

Shimrit Peretz, 19, has come with her off-duty soldier boyfriend, Raz Sason, whose army-issue assault rifle is slung across his shoulders.

"We come to look at the bombing," Peretz says, adding that this is their fourth visit to the hilltop. They plan to stay several hours: "It's interesting." The pair have brought a backpack filled with bottles of water and bags of crisps.

Peretz says that she doesn't worry about the Palestinian civilians caught in the bombing; Sason disagrees. Despite his concern for the innocents caught in the assault, the young conscript soldier wishes he was with his comrades across the border in Gaza. "I'd like to be going in, to help my country and help the soldiers inside," he says.

Given the dramatic views, media crews are coming to the area to cover the fighting. On a nearby hilltop, an ugly scene develops as a group of Israeli men threaten a photographer, accusing him of being a "leftist". We are warned against asking for interviews, as another cheer goes up.