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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
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14
murasaki · 22/08/2025 13:03

Those filters were doing a LOT of heavy lifting.

TheCatsTongue · 22/08/2025 13:10

How could anyone mistake him for being a woman? And how is he only 21?

misscockerspaniel · 22/08/2025 13:11

Even his own defence team is quoted (BBC) as saying it was "blindingly obvious" that he was not female.

moggly · 22/08/2025 13:16

The state of that brick, doesn't pass one bit. He must have purposely sought out the most gullible victim for his ruse to work. I hope he gets a hightened sentence which reflects that.

Falseknock · 22/08/2025 13:27

Did he have shit in his eyes? 🤣

SerendipityJane · 22/08/2025 13:40

misscockerspaniel · 22/08/2025 13:11

Even his own defence team is quoted (BBC) as saying it was "blindingly obvious" that he was not female.

So victim blaming then.

ArabellaScott · 22/08/2025 14:11

unlikelysuspect · 22/08/2025 12:53

He's has been found guilty by jury.
He has to sign the sex offenders list and the judge has said imprisonment is possible.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4gmvgn8z7yo

Good. I hope that his victim gets the support he needs.

Helleofabore · 22/08/2025 14:11

SerendipityJane · 22/08/2025 13:40

So victim blaming then.

It seems so.

"Watkin's lawyers said she saw and presented herself as female but was "visibly and audibly" male, so it would have been "blindingly obvious" to the man that Watkin was not biologically female."

From the BBC article.

The dissonance is very clear.

We have been told as a society, and our children taught, that acceptance with no exception. To believe that someone is who they say they are.

And yet, recently there has been this contradiction where we are seeing the very same people telling us that any male person who states that he has 'an understanding' (to use what we are told is the correct language) that they are experiencing life where they understand they are female has to be treated as if they were female. Even though it is true that logically that 'understanding' is not a female one.

But then we get these court cases. Including the nazi convicted in Germany.

Those same people who tell us all about these male people's understanding, then will arbitrate who is and isn't 'really' transgender according to political expediency, in my opinion. Watkin's has maintained that they are female since they were 13 years old. So, for 7 years!

How is it that it becomes expedient in court to declare that Watkin's is a woman yet that the victim should have known that this woman was biologically male because of appearance and voice?

It is like foundations of shifting sands. This is one fuckton of harm coming to light about the destruction of boundaries. This victim potentially has been taught to believe these lies and therefore had non-existent boundaries. And yet, there are people crowing that this generation is the 'most inclusive' and 'most tolerant' without an inkling of understanding as to what this means for this generation's boundaries.

I use that term 'crowing' very deliberately because it is quite something to see those claims and the belittling that comes from those people towards the people who are pointing out the issues.

ArabellaScott · 22/08/2025 14:12

I've just realised that as this offense wasn't violence directed against a woman, it is possible that Ciara is sent to a woman's prison, should he be convicted.

moggly · 22/08/2025 14:19

SerendipityJane · 22/08/2025 13:40

So victim blaming then.

I'm not sure it is. Another way of looking at it is that his victim must have been the type of person for whom blindingly obvious things aren't blindingly obvious. Meaning his sex offence must have been against a mentally deficient victim. This is even worse.

ArabellaScott · 22/08/2025 14:22

moggly · 22/08/2025 14:19

I'm not sure it is. Another way of looking at it is that his victim must have been the type of person for whom blindingly obvious things aren't blindingly obvious. Meaning his sex offence must have been against a mentally deficient victim. This is even worse.

We know virtually nothing about the victim, nor the circumstances. There could be any number of things that haven't been reported on. Vulnerability and/or other factors.

chinup123 · 22/08/2025 14:29

Couple of thoughts on this.

  1. How he didn't realise that is a man is amazing, however, as some posters say, to imply that the victim should have known is victim blaming and if the case was the other way round, we would be calling out victim blaming. There could be a lot of circumstances where the victim could have been vulnerable or attracted to the 'presumed woman' that led to them disregarding or being blind to what seems to be glaringly obvious to some.
  2. I'm glad this went to court but would it have been the same if it was the other way round. Considering the utter bile I have seen by transwomen towards lesbians for not accepting them as women or not wanting to sleep with them as 'women'. From this case can we accept that a transwoman wanting to sleep with a lesbian or attempted to do so would be assault and against their will?
lechiffre55 · 22/08/2025 14:47

murasaki · 22/08/2025 13:03

Those filters were doing a LOT of heavy lifting.

shoulda capitalised HEAVY too

murasaki · 22/08/2025 14:53

I wonder what Reddit thinks of this, given that this horrible man was happy for his special identity to be denied in an attempt to avoid jail.

ArabellaScott · 22/08/2025 14:58

From comments made by the assailant, drugs were involved.

BeLemonNow · 22/08/2025 15:38

I wish people would stop saying "how did this person not know" and would be more careful about a sexual assault victim who probably is beating themselves up somewhere for that.

I'm glad Ciara was convicted. I wonder what would have happened if they hadn't actively concealed their biological sex.

I.e. someone who hadn't lied (by saying they were on a period), or taken active steps to conceal. But performed sex acts on them nevertheless.

BeLemonNow · 22/08/2025 15:42

@chinup123 r.e. (2) a transwoman having sex with a cis woman.

There's already precedent I think for when a transwoman pretends their penis is actually a strap on.

Even the Alex TrA agrees that is and should illegal.

GailBlancheViola · 22/08/2025 15:44

ArabellaScott · 22/08/2025 14:12

I've just realised that as this offense wasn't violence directed against a woman, it is possible that Ciara is sent to a woman's prison, should he be convicted.

I thought the 'new' rules included whether or not they had male genitalia?

However, since the SC Judgement there should not be ANY males in the female prison estate whatever their offence, presentation, identity or GRC status.

Will be interesting to see what happens here, the law is clear, will it be abided by?

Instructions · 22/08/2025 15:58

Bloody hell but the tide has turned somewhat in the Reddit unitedkingdom sub! The usual suspects are trying to whip up screams of transphobia and defend the rights of trans people to rape by deception and they are not getting the response they want. What with this and the short lived thread there the other day about sex testing for boxing competitors, which before it was deleted attracted mostly approving comments and scorn for the few posters trying to pretend this was heinous abuse of the poor little trans victims, I am starting to think a wave of sanity is breaking...

ArabellaScott · 22/08/2025 16:00

GailBlancheViola · 22/08/2025 15:44

I thought the 'new' rules included whether or not they had male genitalia?

However, since the SC Judgement there should not be ANY males in the female prison estate whatever their offence, presentation, identity or GRC status.

Will be interesting to see what happens here, the law is clear, will it be abided by?

Just checked, and it seems unlikely he'll go to a women's jail.

It shouldn't even be a remote possibility, though.

Since the SC judgement, it seems it would clearly be breaking the law to hold any male in the female estate, as it should be understood by anyone with a modicum of rationality that women should not be incarcerated with men.

'The presumption is that all male prisoners who identify as women with intact male genitalia, or who have a current or previous conviction for any violent or sexual offence (not just against women or girls) should not be held in the general women’s estate. This applies equally to those with and without a GRC: those without a GRC will be held in the male estate; those with a GRC may be held in E Wing at HMP Downview.
Exemptions to this can only be considered on recommendation of a Complex Case Board where there is a high level of confidence that the individual poses a low level of harm to women in prison. Recommendations must be referred to the HMPPS Director General of Operations for consideration and to the Secretary of State for Justice for a final decision.'

kpssinfo.org/prisons-in-england/

ArabellaScott · 22/08/2025 16:02

Instructions · 22/08/2025 15:58

Bloody hell but the tide has turned somewhat in the Reddit unitedkingdom sub! The usual suspects are trying to whip up screams of transphobia and defend the rights of trans people to rape by deception and they are not getting the response they want. What with this and the short lived thread there the other day about sex testing for boxing competitors, which before it was deleted attracted mostly approving comments and scorn for the few posters trying to pretend this was heinous abuse of the poor little trans victims, I am starting to think a wave of sanity is breaking...

Wow, there's an outbreak of misgendering going on on that sub! How strange.

SerendipityJane · 22/08/2025 16:05

I wish people would stop saying "how did this person not know" and would be more careful about a sexual assault victim who probably is beating themselves up somewhere for that.

It is interesting how the victim in this case is allowed to be examined (and faintly criticised).

GailBlancheViola · 22/08/2025 16:10

ArabellaScott · 22/08/2025 16:00

Just checked, and it seems unlikely he'll go to a women's jail.

It shouldn't even be a remote possibility, though.

Since the SC judgement, it seems it would clearly be breaking the law to hold any male in the female estate, as it should be understood by anyone with a modicum of rationality that women should not be incarcerated with men.

'The presumption is that all male prisoners who identify as women with intact male genitalia, or who have a current or previous conviction for any violent or sexual offence (not just against women or girls) should not be held in the general women’s estate. This applies equally to those with and without a GRC: those without a GRC will be held in the male estate; those with a GRC may be held in E Wing at HMP Downview.
Exemptions to this can only be considered on recommendation of a Complex Case Board where there is a high level of confidence that the individual poses a low level of harm to women in prison. Recommendations must be referred to the HMPPS Director General of Operations for consideration and to the Secretary of State for Justice for a final decision.'

kpssinfo.org/prisons-in-england/

That was what I thought. Since the SC Judgement though there should be no special cases/exemptions, no need for Complex Case Boards and Minister approval or anything else.

The male prison estate is where they should go full stop.

SidewaysOtter · 22/08/2025 16:11

misscockerspaniel · 22/08/2025 13:11

Even his own defence team is quoted (BBC) as saying it was "blindingly obvious" that he was not female.

To be fair, it's their job to try and pull apart the victim's testimony/prosecution's case and I doubt they had much else to work with.

But it will be interesting to see what our resident scolders have to say - is it now a case of "TWAW unless it forms part of their defence"?

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