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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Your Corbyn/Sultana Party - Discussion thread

1000 replies

fromorbit · 19/08/2025 08:38

The new left party is going to have significant implications for gender and sex discussions on the left in the UK and in wider political debate as well. Lets talk about it.

Four of its prospective MPs are Gaza independents whose votes and comments in the Commons indicate a social conservative background . One of them Adnan Hussain has already got into a row on X with prospective members over his social conservatism.

The hilarious breakdown of the Islamo-left alliance
The progressive left has suddenly noticed that most British Muslims are not exactly woke.
This uneasy marriage got a reality check last week when a Green Party councillor and practising Muslim, Mothin Ali, appeared reluctant to sign a set of ‘pledges’ on behalf of the LGBTQIA+ Greens, Feminist Greens and other similar groups. The MP for Blackburn, ‘Gaza Independent’ Adnan Hussain, then waded into the debate. ‘It’s no secret that Muslims tend to be socially conservative’, Hussain said. ‘Is there a space on the left to create a broad enough church to allow Muslims an authentic space, just as it does other minority groups?’
https://www.spiked-online.com/2025/08/04/the-hilarious-breakdown-of-the-islamo-left-alliance/

The initial statement for Your Party focuses on poverty, fighting the system and Gaza, but makes no mention of progressive social issues, . This already signals something significant.
https://www.yourparty.uk/statement

Zarah Sultana on the other hand has already signaled out trans rights as a key principal in a recent interview which has received push back from others. Discussion here:

The Elephant in the Room for Zara Sultana’s “Your Party”
https://labourheartlands.com/the-elephant-in-the-room/
But here’s the rub. Sultana also pledged to “resolutely” advocate for a pro-trans socialist programme. She insists these discussions must happen openly and democratically.

That sounds fine in theory. In practice, the left has already shown itself utterly incapable of having this conversation without collapsing into authoritarian cancel culture.

Can the Left Have an Honest Trans Debate Without Cancelling Women?

For years, women who raise legitimate questions about the impact of gender self-ID on female-only spaces, or about the safeguarding implications highlighted by the Cass Review, have been branded as bigots and driven out of the movement. “Demonising trans people” is often code for “asking difficult but necessary questions.” If Your Party repeats this mistake, it will bleed support from countless socialist women before it even begins.

The truth is, many women will not get involved in this project precisely because of the Corbyn–Sultana line on trans issues. Others may hope the problem quietly goes away. It won’t. Nor is this a side issue: women’s rights are not negotiable add-ons to socialism; they are foundational. To ignore them is to build on sand.

TAs online and who are planning to join are already girding up for war, it is looking messy.

I can see a number of factions inside the new party who are going to make things complicated:

Muslim social conservatives - as mentioned they will be a major part of the party's voting bloc.

Old school Marxists who regard gender ideology as neo liberal capitalist identity politics and a distraction from class.

Realists who will see gender stuff as a marginal issue which needs to be sidelined because it is so toxic and unpopular with the general public.

Last but certainly not least actual left wing feminists who see through gender nonsense and are not going to be quiet about it !!

I expect fireworks over gender at the the party's initial conference supposedly to be held in November. TAs will attempt to make genderism a key principal of the party and will face resistance. Whether it happens or not it will be another nail in the TAs attempt to pretend the left inherently back neoliberal capitalist ideas like genderism. The big terfy mother elephant is going to be at the conference because women keep doing awkward things like existing and saying things.

Corbyn's position is going to be a focus in this because for all his occasional signalling on trans issues like stating pronouns and saying mantras it is not a core issue for him, and moreover he doesn't believe in it narrowly . His circles have long contained gender critical people who he has refused to cancel, because Corbyn for all his faults believes in open debate. So I think this could be a wedge issue between those around Sultana and Corbyn. There are already signs of disagreements between them over other issues like antisemitism:
Sultana: Corbyn 'capitulated' on antisemitism definition
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c79lr40rqelo

Statement — Your Party

https://www.yourparty.uk/statement

OP posts:
Thread gallery
97
ArabellaSaurus · 24/10/2025 12:31

Ellie Gomersall is among the Green->Your defectors.

SionnachRuadh · 24/10/2025 12:33

I have a kind of love-hate relationship with Mark Steel - it's a long and not very interesting story - but I can't help thinking of Mark's description of when, as a young SWP member, he had to go around explaining to people that the Communist Party was too right wing.

SionnachRuadh · 24/10/2025 12:36

The trouble with radicalism is that it doesn't survive contact with normie voters. The SGP has been lucky because it's coasted by for years on voters who vaguely thought it was something to do with the environment, and didn't pay much attention to what the party said or did.

ArabellaSaurus · 24/10/2025 12:39

I suspect recent years have demonstrated how little the environment features in SGP politics. Its a token green rosette stuck on a very, very odd looking beast indeed. Anti business, supremely intolerant, and mostly about the egos and peccadilloes of the people in power.

SionnachRuadh · 24/10/2025 12:50

At one time - this is the amateur historian in me - I got very interested in the Jeremy Thorpe story, and I can't help thinking there have been few odder beasts in UK politics than the Liberal Party in the 1970s. There are group photos of Liberal MPs from the period that in retrospect look like a police lineup. Yet Thorpe came within a whisker of being Deputy PM.

I get a similar vibe from the SGP. Except with Thorpe the problem was never really ideological madness, it was just the personal peccadiloes of the MPs.

ArabellaSaurus · 24/10/2025 14:14

I'm trying to imagine at what point the most extreme GreenYour Party proponents would actually say policy was going too far.
.
Puberty blockers for all children? Abolish all property? Issue citizenship invites to all oppressed terrorist militia worldwide? Ban woodburning stoves?

Lalgarh · 24/10/2025 14:18

Ban wood burning stoves but legalisation of crack and heroin.

So the Scottish green party want to abolish landlords and they've defected to Your Party which has the Sultana faction also wanting to do that, but which has as it's top tier MPs at least 3 multiple landlords who actually make the decisions

ArabellaSaurus · 24/10/2025 14:20

😂

Maybe there will be exemptions for people who want to smoke crack on their woodburning stove. Or own lots of property and rent it out to people but only because they really really wanted to help the homeless and would do it in a nicer way than evil prole landlords.

Lalgarh · 24/10/2025 14:23

There was a hanger on of Twitter grifter Racheal Swindon who used to put up regular begging tweets despite owning and renting out a property in central London which he actually claimed was at a peppercorn rate for precisely this reason

SionnachRuadh · 24/10/2025 14:24

They'll get quite the culture shock when they meet the Gaza MPs.

They thought they were going to be in Citizen Smith, but it turns out they're in Adil Ray's Citizen Khan.

ArabellaSaurus · 24/10/2025 14:25

Bless them. They'd be amusing if they weren't some fucking how actually involved in real politics.

Lalgarh · 24/10/2025 14:29

Also as pointed out by livid Scots greens, YP seems to be unionist whereas Scottish Greens pro independence

Sultana also keeps things comradely and conciliatory by blaming the Scottish green party for austerity

https://nitter.net/LauraEWebsterr/status/1980686559289417917#m

SionnachRuadh · 24/10/2025 14:34

Well when it comes to diplomatic relations with potential allies, Sultana is obviously the person you go to if you think George Galloway is too smooth and compromising.

RainbowBagels · 24/10/2025 14:56

Lalgarh · 24/10/2025 14:18

Ban wood burning stoves but legalisation of crack and heroin.

So the Scottish green party want to abolish landlords and they've defected to Your Party which has the Sultana faction also wanting to do that, but which has as it's top tier MPs at least 3 multiple landlords who actually make the decisions

I mean Cocaine use in the UK is decimating the rainforests but who cares about that eh?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/nov/19/cocaine-rainforests-columbia-santos-calderon

Cocaine users are destroying the rainforest - at 4 square metres a gram

Colombian vice-president appeals to eco-conscious drug-users to stop their habit for environment's sake

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/nov/19/cocaine-rainforests-columbia-santos-calderon

Lalgarh · 24/10/2025 15:18

I know! It takes about 2 years to grow a coca plant and it's all from cleared rainforest but Polanski wants to legalise it which will increase the cultivation of a pure cash crop

He[Colombia VP] told the Belfast conference: "If you snort a gram of cocaine, you are destroying four square metres of rainforest and that rainforest is not just Colombian - it belongs to all of us who live on this planet, so we should all be worried about it.

https://news.sky.com/video/trump-s-war-on-drugs-inside-an-eight-hectare-coca-plantation-13443208

YP might face more ructions over their stance on Drugs, like with prostitution if they are trying to hold onto their Gaza oriented Muslim vote.

Trump's war on drugs: Inside an eight-hectare coca plantation

Sky News' Stuart Ramsay enters an eight-hectare coca plantation packed into the rain forest bordering between Peru and Colombia.

https://news.sky.com/video/trump-s-war-on-drugs-inside-an-eight-hectare-coca-plantation-13443208

fromorbit · 26/10/2025 10:26

For anyone needing a rundown of the recent crazy inside the Scottish Greens this thread is informative.

It seems the recent defectors to YP are all part of the faction mainly based in Glasgow that led a recent attempt to unseat Patrick Harvie and others for being not radical and left wing enough.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5313420-scottish-greens-being-sexist-again

So YP have just added a whole new level of drama lamas to their already unstable internal culture. It seems likely that the Green defectors might be able to be a major player inside YP Scotland just as they are coming together.

This could have significant impacts in the upcoming Scottish elections in May if YP candidates run which seems likely to happen.

The big YP conference is looking more and more likely to be chaotic.

YP Regional Assemblies are happening in the run up supposedly to lay ground work. Interesting report from someone who attended and is sceptical of how they are organised and thinks it is part of a wider top down approach to control party.

ASSEMBLE/DISSEMBLE: THE YOUR PARTY NORWICH ASSEMBLY 19/10/25 by Larry O’Hara 21/10/25
https://borderland.co.uk/assemble-dissemble-the-your-party-norwich-assembly-19-10-25-by-larry-ohara-21-10-25/

Meanwhile SWP entryism continues

Activists get stuck into Your Party assemblies
https://socialistworker.co.uk/labour/activists-get-stuck-into-your-party-assemblies/

Scottish Greens being sexist again | Mumsnet

With Sparkles no longer a member other male Scottish Greens have had to step up to continue their terrible reputation. They are doing their bit. *Sco...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5313420-scottish-greens-being-sexist-again

OP posts:
Lalgarh · 26/10/2025 11:30

From the SW

"Zarah Sultana spoke about the need for a socialist party, not a Labour Party 2.0, the need to defend migrants and trans people and for an open, democratic party.
She was joined on the all-female platform by a long-time local community activist and by a bus driver who described the recent successful strike led by Unite.
A third of those present were older activists who had been through Corbynism, reunited through the Palestine movement and had initiated the local Your Party meetings. The rest were young workers and students who were already socialists—the main organisers of the public meeting...."

(All female? Sounds a bit sex specific. Was that deliberate? )

Industrial round-up: Bus companies shouldn’t be allowed to profit at workers expense

Plus: Workers in Wakefield vote to extend strike, workers at Manchester airport being balloted for industrial action and strikes continue at Sellafield nuclear processing plant

https://socialistworker.co.uk/trade-unions/industrial-round-up-bus-companies-shouldnt-be-allowed-to-profit-at-workers-expense/

DrBlackbird · 26/10/2025 11:53

ArabellaSaurus · 24/10/2025 14:25

Bless them. They'd be amusing if they weren't some fucking how actually involved in real politics.

This is how I feel.

The left have progressively got more extreme but also increasingly lacking logic, reason and an ability to draw inferences from disparate but related phenomenon. It’s depressing and highly disturbing when it’s widening the space for Reform to step in. Just what is the matter with them?

Older ideologues meeting virtue signalling young adults and throwing in a smatter of out and out shysters selling breast enhancing hypnosis. Wtaf.

Edited to add, none of them seem to reflect the average British voter apart from Reform pretending to get the closest.

MaturingCheeseball · 26/10/2025 13:23

An old school friend told me rather proudly that her ds is a communist and activist. Then she told me how she’d had an inheritance from an aunt so had bought him a flat in London. This boy (well, man I suppose) has gone from private school to lounging in parents’ Clapham house to his own paid-for flat…

I understand this is a somewhat typical profile of these twerps in the Greens/SWP/YourSillyParty…

Lalgarh · 26/10/2025 16:30

There is quite an element of proletarian cosplay involved in a lot of this. I'd worked out fairly early on that I was essentially lower middle class but I was sorting of accepted as An Wimmin of Colour which made up for it. Intersectionality in action!

Meanwhile a college contemporary of mine who was and remained a TROO BELIEVER (nowadays running his own trot friendly think tank replete with occasional guardian articles and Corbyn associates) used to wonder round in a 2nd hand BT engineers jacket to emphasise his prole credentials (donkey jackets were thin on the ground by the 2000s), even though his Dad was a software consultant

SionnachRuadh · 26/10/2025 17:32

I have the advantage of having an accent that instantly marks me as being (a) not English and (b) not middle class. I can't say it's helped me with English Trots. As soon as I open my mouth they look at me as if I'm going to glass them.

It probably doesn't help either that, even if I didn't know anything about their backgrounds, I can tell from their accents that the members of Kneecap are theatre kids cosplaying as chavs, and I have no hesitation saying so.

MaturingCheeseball · 26/10/2025 17:37

@Lalgarh - god, the donkey jackets 🫣 Hmmm, I wonder if there is a business in selling repro miners’ strike-era jackets (optional SCUM! placard available).

SionnachRuadh · 26/10/2025 17:44

I find I can spot the downwardly mobile PMC types by their dress.

When I was a wean I used to go to my grandparents' place, before it was torn down for slum clearance, and even though most of the houses didn't have indoor plumbing, you'd never catch the occupants looking scruffy.

Shortshriftandlethal · 26/10/2025 19:28

And for the older gentleman the classic 'Lenin cap' as sported by Jeremy Corbyn.

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