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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Your Corbyn/Sultana Party - Discussion thread

1000 replies

fromorbit · 19/08/2025 08:38

The new left party is going to have significant implications for gender and sex discussions on the left in the UK and in wider political debate as well. Lets talk about it.

Four of its prospective MPs are Gaza independents whose votes and comments in the Commons indicate a social conservative background . One of them Adnan Hussain has already got into a row on X with prospective members over his social conservatism.

The hilarious breakdown of the Islamo-left alliance
The progressive left has suddenly noticed that most British Muslims are not exactly woke.
This uneasy marriage got a reality check last week when a Green Party councillor and practising Muslim, Mothin Ali, appeared reluctant to sign a set of ‘pledges’ on behalf of the LGBTQIA+ Greens, Feminist Greens and other similar groups. The MP for Blackburn, ‘Gaza Independent’ Adnan Hussain, then waded into the debate. ‘It’s no secret that Muslims tend to be socially conservative’, Hussain said. ‘Is there a space on the left to create a broad enough church to allow Muslims an authentic space, just as it does other minority groups?’
https://www.spiked-online.com/2025/08/04/the-hilarious-breakdown-of-the-islamo-left-alliance/

The initial statement for Your Party focuses on poverty, fighting the system and Gaza, but makes no mention of progressive social issues, . This already signals something significant.
https://www.yourparty.uk/statement

Zarah Sultana on the other hand has already signaled out trans rights as a key principal in a recent interview which has received push back from others. Discussion here:

The Elephant in the Room for Zara Sultana’s “Your Party”
https://labourheartlands.com/the-elephant-in-the-room/
But here’s the rub. Sultana also pledged to “resolutely” advocate for a pro-trans socialist programme. She insists these discussions must happen openly and democratically.

That sounds fine in theory. In practice, the left has already shown itself utterly incapable of having this conversation without collapsing into authoritarian cancel culture.

Can the Left Have an Honest Trans Debate Without Cancelling Women?

For years, women who raise legitimate questions about the impact of gender self-ID on female-only spaces, or about the safeguarding implications highlighted by the Cass Review, have been branded as bigots and driven out of the movement. “Demonising trans people” is often code for “asking difficult but necessary questions.” If Your Party repeats this mistake, it will bleed support from countless socialist women before it even begins.

The truth is, many women will not get involved in this project precisely because of the Corbyn–Sultana line on trans issues. Others may hope the problem quietly goes away. It won’t. Nor is this a side issue: women’s rights are not negotiable add-ons to socialism; they are foundational. To ignore them is to build on sand.

TAs online and who are planning to join are already girding up for war, it is looking messy.

I can see a number of factions inside the new party who are going to make things complicated:

Muslim social conservatives - as mentioned they will be a major part of the party's voting bloc.

Old school Marxists who regard gender ideology as neo liberal capitalist identity politics and a distraction from class.

Realists who will see gender stuff as a marginal issue which needs to be sidelined because it is so toxic and unpopular with the general public.

Last but certainly not least actual left wing feminists who see through gender nonsense and are not going to be quiet about it !!

I expect fireworks over gender at the the party's initial conference supposedly to be held in November. TAs will attempt to make genderism a key principal of the party and will face resistance. Whether it happens or not it will be another nail in the TAs attempt to pretend the left inherently back neoliberal capitalist ideas like genderism. The big terfy mother elephant is going to be at the conference because women keep doing awkward things like existing and saying things.

Corbyn's position is going to be a focus in this because for all his occasional signalling on trans issues like stating pronouns and saying mantras it is not a core issue for him, and moreover he doesn't believe in it narrowly . His circles have long contained gender critical people who he has refused to cancel, because Corbyn for all his faults believes in open debate. So I think this could be a wedge issue between those around Sultana and Corbyn. There are already signs of disagreements between them over other issues like antisemitism:
Sultana: Corbyn 'capitulated' on antisemitism definition
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c79lr40rqelo

Statement — Your Party

https://www.yourparty.uk/statement

OP posts:
Thread gallery
97
RuttleTuttle · 22/09/2025 11:19

Image of her statement, for those who don't want to visit X:

Your Corbyn/Sultana Party - Discussion thread
Lalgarh · 22/09/2025 11:22

Ga @RuttleTuttle you beat me to it!

Refers to "a regrettable situation" which is peak Sir Humphrey minimising. Also that grovelling to Jeremy as having the admiration of her generation (late millennials or is she gen Z?). Bloody hell judging by the posts from young team sultana online they're absolutely FURIOUS with him

SionnachRuadh · 22/09/2025 11:23

I think the key takeaway is that the MPs were determined to go ahead with the conference with or without Sultana. This might have concentrated her mind. I imagine it's the first time in her life anyone has said no to her.

Lalgarh · 22/09/2025 11:25

Likely she dropped her case BC she realised she's got nowt to challenge on? The information commissioner report isn't necessarily going to be dropped.

Is the portal still collecting subs? The telegraph was reporting it had crashed.

SionnachRuadh · 22/09/2025 11:33

Funny thing is that when Corbyn was Labour leader everyone in his circle knew he was getting old - he's still very sprightly, but time catches up with all of us - and they knew there wasn't an obvious successor. Blair was so effective at gutting the left that there were other old people like McDonnell and Abbott, and some young and inexperienced MPs, and almost nobody in between.

So they were trying to raise the profile of younger people who could be long term successors. McDonnell was pushing Becky Long-Bailey. Karie Murphy was pushing Laura Pidcock. There was some buzz around Dan Carden. Of course the 2019 election and the Starmer leadership put paid to all that, but it was the right thing to do.

Nobody ever mentioned Sultana in those conversations. She mostly seemed interested in building her online following.

RainbowBagels · 22/09/2025 11:43

SionnachRuadh · 22/09/2025 11:21

Reading that article, it seems Sultana has been sidelined. However, if this really is to be a 'grassroots' movement, the split between the TWAW and the Islamic Social Conservatives is irreconcilable. I suspect the vast majority of the people who signed up to the movement are TWAW, so if they decide that is the position of the party, the Muslim MP's will walk, taking their supporters with them. As said by @SionnachRuadh already, they think the Muslims are going to be NPC's. They wont be. JC doesn't really care as much about TWAW as he does about Palestine but he is almost irrelevant as he wont make any decisions either way.

Lalgarh · 22/09/2025 11:51

NPC? Non participatory comrades?

BrickBiscuit · 22/09/2025 11:56

Lalgarh · 22/09/2025 11:51

NPC? Non participatory comrades?

Non-player character. I just looked it up. It’s from role-playing gamer lingo.
Edit: more fully, as a meme (like here) it describes a character who does not contribute individual thoughts or opinions, but follows the ‘party line’. Though what the party line could possibly be, I don’t know. Trans rights are a typically ‘no-debate’ hard line, while Islam is intransigent in precisely the opposite direction. Both sides hold that the others’ position is unconscionable. How can they work together?

moto748e · 22/09/2025 12:09

McDonnell was pushing Becky Long-Bailey.

Whatever happened to RL-B? She seemed to disappear off the face of the earth.

Lalgarh · 22/09/2025 12:10

Thanks.

I see that now. It's a legacy of the tendency to think they could simply rely on block votes because they An Ethnic. Are they simply assuming everyone who is black or Sikh will also vote for them? I guess they almost certainly don't want Jewish communities voting for them if it diluted their pro Palestine stance with consideration for Israeli security

BrickBiscuit · 22/09/2025 12:20

Lalgarh · 22/09/2025 12:10

Thanks.

I see that now. It's a legacy of the tendency to think they could simply rely on block votes because they An Ethnic. Are they simply assuming everyone who is black or Sikh will also vote for them? I guess they almost certainly don't want Jewish communities voting for them if it diluted their pro Palestine stance with consideration for Israeli security

However there is a considerable Jewish group who are pro-Palestine, many of whom found a long-standing ally in Corbyn. This does not imply their antagonism to the security of Israelis, rather to the security of the Israeli government (its current programme and past behaviour). Corbyn’s Labour maintained a strong and vibrant Jewish following and membership among this section. It is my understanding that Starmer is the one who has presided over suspending, investigating or expelling more Jews from Labour than every previous leader combined.

SionnachRuadh · 22/09/2025 12:29

Corbyn and his supporters got themselves into a lot of trouble by assuming that Tony Greenstein, David Rosenberg etc are in any way representative of the Jewish community.

I'm not making any comment here about the rightness or wrongness of their positions. I'm just pointing out that those "Jews for Jeremy" open letters that appeared in the Guardian supporting his leadership were all signed by the same 200 people, who are almost universally regarded as cranks by the mainstream community.

BrickBiscuit · 22/09/2025 12:36

Mainstream media more like.

RainbowBagels · 22/09/2025 12:38

BrickBiscuit · 22/09/2025 11:56

Non-player character. I just looked it up. It’s from role-playing gamer lingo.
Edit: more fully, as a meme (like here) it describes a character who does not contribute individual thoughts or opinions, but follows the ‘party line’. Though what the party line could possibly be, I don’t know. Trans rights are a typically ‘no-debate’ hard line, while Islam is intransigent in precisely the opposite direction. Both sides hold that the others’ position is unconscionable. How can they work together?

Edited

Yeah sorry I knew what it meant as I have teenagers!
I don't think they will work together. Like it or not, elected MP's represent (or are supposed to represent) people in their constituency. Not random lefties in a party that doesn't exist yet.
Corbyn made this mistake before, of thinking just because half a million people paid £1 to vote join his Labour party that that could be translated into general approval.

SionnachRuadh · 22/09/2025 12:40

BrickBiscuit · 22/09/2025 12:36

Mainstream media more like.

If you think more than a tiny section of the Jewish community is keen on Corbyn, I can't help you.

Shortshriftandlethal · 22/09/2025 12:42

BrickBiscuit · 22/09/2025 12:20

However there is a considerable Jewish group who are pro-Palestine, many of whom found a long-standing ally in Corbyn. This does not imply their antagonism to the security of Israelis, rather to the security of the Israeli government (its current programme and past behaviour). Corbyn’s Labour maintained a strong and vibrant Jewish following and membership among this section. It is my understanding that Starmer is the one who has presided over suspending, investigating or expelling more Jews from Labour than every previous leader combined.

Yes, quite a few Jews, people like Alexei Sayle, have always chosen to prioritise their socialism over their Jewish identity. And Jewish people have a long history with Communism. But to be jewish there comes a point where you are expected to declare you are anti Israel in order to continue being accepted in socialist circles.

RainbowBagels · 22/09/2025 12:45

BrickBiscuit · 22/09/2025 12:36

Mainstream media more like.

The 'Mainstream media' stuff is ridiculous. As if only Corbynistas know how to read or have any understanding of how the media works, and everyone else is too stupid to understand it. This is the type of thing that stops the Left from actually addressing the reasons why they keep collapsing into infighting. They think people who don't think like them are somehow too stupid to understand their superior thinking, and they just need to be educated by them into Right think.

Lalgarh · 22/09/2025 12:50

"mainstream media" /MSM is now a standard battle cry of the far right. It's also what Sultana was wanging on about which was so indicative. They give interviews to their own "trusted" outlets like Canary, Squawkbox or Novara for the left or OANN and fox or GB News for the right.

SionnachRuadh · 22/09/2025 12:54

I won't deny, it's sort of impressive that Corbyn acquired a Yevsektsiya without even winning state power.

Ask James Schneider how that's going for him. He's currently got the lunatic element of Corbynworld fingering him as the Mossad agent secretly controlling the leader. I wonder if Schneider will ever admit that he and Corbyn helped empower these bozos.

Yevsektsiya - Wikipedia

maltravers · 22/09/2025 13:25

Calling people “comrades” 🙄- you’re not going to win any power to effect change Zarah unless you stop speaking like a student politician.

BrickBiscuit · 22/09/2025 13:56

Shortshriftandlethal · 22/09/2025 12:42

Yes, quite a few Jews, people like Alexei Sayle, have always chosen to prioritise their socialism over their Jewish identity. And Jewish people have a long history with Communism. But to be jewish there comes a point where you are expected to declare you are anti Israel in order to continue being accepted in socialist circles.

Edited

I’m not sure ‘Jewish identity’ is bound up in the way you suggest. That’s a bit like me saying upthread that Islam is intransigent re trans rights - an unfounded blanket assertion not true of the experience of many individuals. And as for 'expecting Jews to declare’ anything - just try it!

Shortshriftandlethal · 22/09/2025 14:03

BrickBiscuit · 22/09/2025 13:56

I’m not sure ‘Jewish identity’ is bound up in the way you suggest. That’s a bit like me saying upthread that Islam is intransigent re trans rights - an unfounded blanket assertion not true of the experience of many individuals. And as for 'expecting Jews to declare’ anything - just try it!

And yet by all accounts many young Jews do feel they have to be 'anti Israel' to be considered acceptable in Left wing circles.

Alexei Sayle has certainly spoke of how his commitment to his Socialist/Communist upbringing and his subsequent position regarding Israel has caused him to lose a lot of friendships and connections within the Jewish community, and how painful that has been for him.

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