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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

This thread is specifically for people who think JK Rowling is awful so..

785 replies

CurlewKate · 18/08/2025 05:44

If you don't think she is please don’t post. Please can you tell me specifically what she has said or done that is so bad. I promise that I will listen and not argue. If you could include links that would be great. If your inclination is to assume that I’m posting in bad faith and any reasonably well informed person must be stupid or bigoted not to know, then please just let the thread die.

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22
justteanbiscuits · 18/08/2025 16:41

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 18/08/2025 16:12

Yes, OK.

But look at what you posted.

You admitted that there is no way to distinguish between a trans woman and a predatory male. (Correct. Why? Because both are male people whose inner thoughts and feelings we aren't privy to.)

You said that trans women have an unfair advantage over women in sport. (Correct. Because they are male people and their thoughts and feelings don't affect their sporting performance.)

And you said that trans women's experience isn't the same as women's experience. (Again, correct.)

You say "trans women are trans women". You can't even bring yourself to say "trans women are women", because you know it's stupid.

But "trans women are trans women" doesn't mean anything, any more than "spoons are spoons" means something.

Trans women are men, it just still feels taboo to say it.

You're just a year or so behind JK Rowling in your gender critical awakening.

I have zero idea what you are talking about. You seem to think you've reached some amazing realisation. You keep saying I can't bring myself to say "trans women are women".. You just aren't making any sense.

I have held these views for a number of years. I am not having any gender awakening. I have known and cared about trans people for 30 years or more.

I said what I believe. Do not try and turn it into more than it is.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 18/08/2025 16:42

justteanbiscuits · 18/08/2025 16:41

I have zero idea what you are talking about. You seem to think you've reached some amazing realisation. You keep saying I can't bring myself to say "trans women are women".. You just aren't making any sense.

I have held these views for a number of years. I am not having any gender awakening. I have known and cared about trans people for 30 years or more.

I said what I believe. Do not try and turn it into more than it is.

Yes. It's quite clear that you believe trans women are men.

justteanbiscuits · 18/08/2025 16:43

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Haulage · 18/08/2025 16:43

I feel that so many of the anti-JKR replies here are precisely described in The Bewilderness’s Rules of Misogyny - particularly 2, 3 and 14. Just more rehashing of the expectation that women should appease be kind to men 🤪🙄

The Rules of Misogyny

#12. Women’s ability to recognize male behavior patterns is misandry

https://4w.pub/the-rules-of-misogyny/

Namelessnelly · 18/08/2025 16:43

justteanbiscuits · 18/08/2025 13:36

Yes thank you. I am quite sure this happened.

But I'm thrilled that quizzing me on this is more important than a group of adults causing teenage girls to be bullied. Which was my point. You see it across all areas at the moment - "we're just protecting the women" but actually, they're not. They want to protect some women, but not all of them.

Which women is jk not wanting to protect?

SingingintheRadiator · 18/08/2025 16:44

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

But you literally do? Everything you believe points to you not accepting that they're women in any real, meaningful way, which only leaves men. You can dress it up by calling them transwomen, but that's just another way of saying men.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 18/08/2025 16:44

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

I'm not trying to bait you. It's obvious. You basically said that trans women are not like women in all the situations where sex is relevant.

Merrymouse · 18/08/2025 16:45

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 18/08/2025 16:35

Surely she is on record as having said enough about trans issues for you to have an opinion on whether she is transphobic or not?

It's not as if she sits quietly thinking thoughts about trans issues, which may or may not be transphobic.

Her detractors are objecting to the comments she has made in writing, in a public space, over a period of almost 6 years. And yet they cannot quote a single one of those comments and give a coherent explanation as to why it is transphobic.

"It's not as if she sits quietly thinking thoughts about trans issues, which may or may not be transphobic."

Exactly.

You might not like the way she expresses herself or disagree with the substance, but she really isn't hiding her opinions.

viques · 18/08/2025 16:47

justteanbiscuits · 18/08/2025 14:09

I believe women are women and trans women are trans women. I don't believe they should be excluded from society, but I believe they are trans women.

The work I have done, and continue to do, is to keep the women / female category solely for those born female. This isn't perfect, because as we know, not everyone who is 'assigned female at birth' is actually female. But full DNA testing isn't a possibility in youth and amateur sport. So we generally take people at their word, and only their birth certificate would ever be asked for as proof if there were any serious doubts. Anyone, regardless of gender or sex, is able to compete in an Open category.

So at what point do trans identifying men stop being just men and become TIM? When they buy a lipstick and a pair of tights? When they buy a bra and stuff it with socks, or do they have to have bra filling surgery? What if they don’t have surgery and their trans identity remains cosmetic, does that count? If it is just a question of “I am what I say I am” why can’t we say no, actually you are still genetically a man, dress how you want, call yourself what you want but you really can’t go against the binary sexual arrangements that every other mammalian species and most other plant and animal species use on our planet just because you have a feeling which is more likely to either be a manifestation of your latent homosexuality or a product of some form of dysmorphic mental illness such as for example we readily accept is the case for anorexia. We really cannot have a society where to mollify a tiny proportion of disordered men other men, with adverse intentions, are as a by product of “kindness” given free access to vulnerable women and girls.

And btw people aren’t “assigned” a sex at birth, sex is observed using the very useful physical clues nature has provided. Sometimes, if there has been some sort of chromosomal glitch, and the child is unfortunate enough to be born in a country where medical provision is limited , and additionally the social stigma of a child felt to have a physical anomaly is very oppressive, a decision might be made which later proves to have been unwise, Caster Semanya and the Algerian boxer are unfortunate examples. But these are rare, and do not actually affect a human beings chromosomal identity of being male or female.

DNA testing in youth and most amateur sport should as you say be unnecessary, especially since once again there are usually sufficient physical markers which identify sex - especially in males post puberty - and which should be enough to make it clear whether an athlete should be competing in open or sexed classes. When it does become necessary, and should be obligatory, is when those very clear physical markers are ignored or deliberately fudged in order to obtain advantage in professional sport. This could be sorted by making a simple, universally accepted mouth swab test being obligatory for all professional athletes and sportspeople.

justteanbiscuits · 18/08/2025 16:48

Namelessnelly · 18/08/2025 16:43

Which women is jk not wanting to protect?

I gave the example of my friend and her daughters. Read back.

TheKeatingFive · 18/08/2025 16:49

Viviennemary · 18/08/2025 09:15

I agree. I'm not in favour of trans people taking part in sport in women teams. I'm totally against it, But her anti trans stand borders on hatred which isnt acceptable.

What hatred? Can you give some examples?

BezMills · 18/08/2025 16:49

I too think she's awful. I'm in awe of her. Awww how great is she? Awe-ltogether a topp individual awe-ll round yes.

123 awwwwwww

Waitwhat23 · 18/08/2025 16:49

GargoylesofBeelzebub · 18/08/2025 16:04

I'll never forget JKR effectively neutralising the Scottish government's draconian hate crime laws. The TRAs were gearing up to destroy ordinary women and she took the wind right out of their sails. What a shero.

It was fricking glorious

This thread is specifically for people who think JK Rowling is awful so..
eatfigs · 18/08/2025 16:50

"Transphobic" has taken on a meaning similar to "heretic", so by that understanding we're all transphobic here, as is JKR, for rejecting gender identity ideological beliefs.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 18/08/2025 16:50

justteanbiscuits · 18/08/2025 16:48

I gave the example of my friend and her daughters. Read back.

But refused to provide any evidence.

justteanbiscuits · 18/08/2025 16:51

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 18/08/2025 16:44

I'm not trying to bait you. It's obvious. You basically said that trans women are not like women in all the situations where sex is relevant.

Does gender not matter in social situations? I treat the trans women in my life exactly the same way I treat any other woman. I treat the trans men exactly the same way as I treat men socially.

At the end of the day, it is all down to how you treat people.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 18/08/2025 16:52

justteanbiscuits · 18/08/2025 16:51

Does gender not matter in social situations? I treat the trans women in my life exactly the same way I treat any other woman. I treat the trans men exactly the same way as I treat men socially.

At the end of the day, it is all down to how you treat people.

I don't see why you would need to treat men and women differently in social situations.

takealettermsjones · 18/08/2025 16:54

justteanbiscuits · 18/08/2025 16:51

Does gender not matter in social situations? I treat the trans women in my life exactly the same way I treat any other woman. I treat the trans men exactly the same way as I treat men socially.

At the end of the day, it is all down to how you treat people.

In what ways do you treat the men and women in your life differently? (All else being equal, I mean)

And then, did you know these trans women in your life pre-transition? Did you go instantly from treating them as in the "men" camp to treating them as in the "women" camp?

TheKeatingFive · 18/08/2025 16:54

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 18/08/2025 16:42

Yes. It's quite clear that you believe trans women are men.

Which, to be fair, makes complete sense as everyone knows that they are.

The question is why is the poster tying themselves in knots trying to pretend that they aren't.

Merrymouse · 18/08/2025 16:54

justteanbiscuits · 18/08/2025 16:48

I gave the example of my friend and her daughters. Read back.

I think we can all agree that JK Rowling does not agree with all women.

Without more information on your example, it's impossible to know what point you are making.

eatfigs · 18/08/2025 16:54

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 18/08/2025 16:50

But refused to provide any evidence.

It may or may not have happened, but if it did then quietly deleting the retweet, after having realised with some embarrassment that it's a load of nonsense, is what most people would do. Who amongst us hasn't shared or liked something incorrect on social media and removed it later. Can't get it right all the time.

IrnBruAndDietCoke · 18/08/2025 16:55

About 3 or 4 years ago (or thereabouts) I was discussing my shock at friends' posts on Facebook that apparently JKR was transphobic. My DH was a bit ahead of me on this news and challenged me to find one thing JKR had said that was transphobic.
I read through the letter and her Twitter.
I had a realisation that there was no transphobia, and the scales fell from my eyes.
I do encourage everyone to challenge themselves to actually go and find for themselves (not via a third party) what she's ever said that was transphobic.

IrnBruAndDietCoke · 18/08/2025 16:56

justteanbiscuits · 18/08/2025 16:51

Does gender not matter in social situations? I treat the trans women in my life exactly the same way I treat any other woman. I treat the trans men exactly the same way as I treat men socially.

At the end of the day, it is all down to how you treat people.

At the end of the day, it's down to exactly this sort of gender-stereotyped social attitude.
This is the whole of the problem. Everything else has grown from it.

justteanbiscuits · 18/08/2025 16:57

viques · 18/08/2025 16:47

So at what point do trans identifying men stop being just men and become TIM? When they buy a lipstick and a pair of tights? When they buy a bra and stuff it with socks, or do they have to have bra filling surgery? What if they don’t have surgery and their trans identity remains cosmetic, does that count? If it is just a question of “I am what I say I am” why can’t we say no, actually you are still genetically a man, dress how you want, call yourself what you want but you really can’t go against the binary sexual arrangements that every other mammalian species and most other plant and animal species use on our planet just because you have a feeling which is more likely to either be a manifestation of your latent homosexuality or a product of some form of dysmorphic mental illness such as for example we readily accept is the case for anorexia. We really cannot have a society where to mollify a tiny proportion of disordered men other men, with adverse intentions, are as a by product of “kindness” given free access to vulnerable women and girls.

And btw people aren’t “assigned” a sex at birth, sex is observed using the very useful physical clues nature has provided. Sometimes, if there has been some sort of chromosomal glitch, and the child is unfortunate enough to be born in a country where medical provision is limited , and additionally the social stigma of a child felt to have a physical anomaly is very oppressive, a decision might be made which later proves to have been unwise, Caster Semanya and the Algerian boxer are unfortunate examples. But these are rare, and do not actually affect a human beings chromosomal identity of being male or female.

DNA testing in youth and most amateur sport should as you say be unnecessary, especially since once again there are usually sufficient physical markers which identify sex - especially in males post puberty - and which should be enough to make it clear whether an athlete should be competing in open or sexed classes. When it does become necessary, and should be obligatory, is when those very clear physical markers are ignored or deliberately fudged in order to obtain advantage in professional sport. This could be sorted by making a simple, universally accepted mouth swab test being obligatory for all professional athletes and sportspeople.

Edited

If I knew all the answers I would be much more highly paid than I am.

Regarding the sport. I said assigned at birth to mean what ever was put on their birth certificate at birth. I said it wasn't perfect as there have been some high profile cases of elite athletes. I am not involved with sport at a professional or elite level particularly. My point was, entirely, that at amateur and youth level, you make the rules and hope people stick to them as there is nothing else to be done. And that I got off my arse, and did something to help clarify rules to protect women.

LadyBracknellsHandbagg · 18/08/2025 16:58

justteanbiscuits · 18/08/2025 16:41

I have zero idea what you are talking about. You seem to think you've reached some amazing realisation. You keep saying I can't bring myself to say "trans women are women".. You just aren't making any sense.

I have held these views for a number of years. I am not having any gender awakening. I have known and cared about trans people for 30 years or more.

I said what I believe. Do not try and turn it into more than it is.

It’s understandable that if you’ve believed something for 30 years that turns out not to be true, that’s got to be difficult to accept. You don’t have to start abusing women on here for stating facts. You need to blame the people that sold you the lie.

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