Men in the movement.

[UrsulasHerbBag]

Hi everyone. I just want to give you all a reminder that men in our movement are not always what they seem. Just because they say they agree with us doesn’t mean they are in it for the same reasons we are. There a few that see how lucrative being on TERF/GC platforms can be. I think I am mainly saying that if you see one of these men attacking women online, even if you think that woman is awful don’t join in with him, just scroll passed. There has been a lot of it recently on various platforms and it has upset me to see how many women support them in their misogyny whilst calling themselves feminists. I am very proud of the women who fight hard to gain ground and get our voices heard and I am just a bit sick of men who jump in from nowhere, take our words and kick our women and be supported by us. It is a tale as old as time, men taking from women. As you were TERFs.

Have you any specific examples that you'd feel comfortable sharing Ursula?

I understand broadly what you're getting at. I'm always wary of lefty liberal blokes until I've properly sussed them out.

If this is what I’ve watched play out today (or one of the cleverer one playing a much longer game) then I get you OP. And I’m sick of seeing women rush to defend these men and castigate women sounding the alarm as “GC infighting”. It’s not. They’re not in. They’re not part of this. They’re out for themselves and we definitely do not need them one iota.

Is this thread prompted by the BoswellToday stuff on twitter?

I haven't caught up with it fully but saw that the Sandie Peggie summaries were apparently generated by AI (which is helpful to know, as it explains why some of them seemed to really miss the mark in terms of the tone and content that we were watching at the tribunal!).

I saw though that people who exposed that and other problems, were very quickly told they were mad/stupid/wrong which made my heart sink after following the boswell account for some months.

I've been following the Boswell-Hatchet row and have been put off Boswell to the extent I've stopped following the account. He - I'm assuming it's a he from the behaviour - immediately turned to attacking Hatchet and got quite personal about it, which was followed by a number of women stroking his ego and saying how much they agreed with him. I'm not going along with that crap, thank you.

The use of AI looked dodgy too. To start with the summaries were okay but as time went on the content lessened and opinion took over. In the end there was very little content at all, so not worth reading.

Thanks for the warning about AI-generated summaries. I’ve often found them inaccurate on subjects I know something about, so I don’t trust them.

I ran Boswell’s X profile photo through an AI detector online. The verdict was his picture was 100% AI. He’s now admitted using AI for the NHS Fife tribunal summaries and has locked down his profile. While he may be genuine in his GC beliefs, I can’t help but feel a little cheated.

When you think of all the carefully chosen words that feminists have written from the heart about the harms of gender ideology - all that time and effort, it’s quite galling that a man thinks he can rock up late to the party with a robot to show us all how it’s done, while insulting any women who dare to question his motives.

Just looked at his profile, what's visible, and he's turned to simply being spiteful. Glad I unfollowed him.

I must admit I find it quite funny that Boswell's daily summaries of the Peggie case - which I largely found very helpful - were generated by AI. I suppose it's a sign of things to come.

At the risk of wading into something I'm not fully on top of, I did think that Jean Hatchet's outbursts - and those of some of her followers - were excessive. When Boswell replied in kind, calling her mad, she then played the victim: Boswell was a typical man, painting women as hysterical lunatics and so on. But she started it, after all. If you can't take it, don't dish it out would be my advice.

From what I've seen Boswell has been insulting women for some time and that doesn't sit right with me.

Well I've now unfollowed Jean Hatchett. I just feel that she puts feminist purity ahead of actually getting fetishistic men out of vulnerable women's spaces and protecting children. We need to work with GC men, with all their egos and imperfections, to see this through to the end.

I'm blocked by JH, without ever having interacted with her. I have absolutely no idea why. I can only guess that she used or uses a block list and I must have followed someone she doesn't like, or something. I only block people if they're actually abusive or known to doxx wonen. Odd.
ETA: I rarely post and my account is tiny, I understand it'd be different for people with an actual following!

I'm blocked by the woman who paints messages on rocks. Never interacted with her and have no idea why she blocked me.

The something of the night quote was an Anne Widdecombe reference, which JH took to be him (assuming Boswell is a he) calling her, if I recall correctly, a whore. Then JH took the Nurse! tweet to be a derogatory comment referring to the status of nurses v doctors - I thought it was a familiar Carry On type jibe. So I think she, JH, may have been a bit trigger happy.
I read boswells summaries of the Sandie Peggie case and found them useful as I couldn’t follow TT all day and lost track of some of the abbreviations. I’m still following both and hope this is just a blip.

The something of the night quote was an Anne Widdecombe reference, which JH took to be him (assuming Boswell is a he) calling her, if I recall correctly, a whore.

Yes, Ann Widdecombe described Michael Howard as having "something of the night about him" - nothing to do with being a whore.

Then JH took the Nurse! tweet to be a derogatory comment referring to the status of nurses v doctors - I thought it was a familiar Carry On type jibe.

Exactly what I thought.

I can't see anything inherently wrong in using LLMs to summarise text, so long as a human checks that it is a fair summary before publishing. I know someone who uses it in her public sector role and considers it game-changing in terms of saving her hours of tedious work and freeing her up to spend time on higher level thinking.

Hard to know whether JH is genuinely deficient in understanding (both the nurse reference and the something of the night reference would be familiar to most people over the age of 50) or whether she is deliberately putting as nasty a spin on them as possible to make herself look like the injured party.

It's all so exhausting, this, isn't it? People acting like six year olds arguing in the playground instead of mature adults.

So is this thread about Jean Hatchet and Boswell? Is there a reason to be secretive?

If it is, well I like Jean Hatchet. While people like me dither on the sidelines, she gets things done. She's also not afraid to to hold up her hands and say so if she thinks she's been an arse which I think is admirable. And she makes me laugh when a TRA's having a pop at her and she calls him, 'Fella'.

But I think she also, how can I put this, has previous when it comes to falling out with people.

I'd never heard of Boswell before the Sandy Peggie case and I know nothing about his history. I found his summaries useful and I'm not opposed on principle to using A1 as a tool but I'd have preferred it if he'd made that clear from the start, and yes it makes me wonder about accuracy.

I think that basically, I will dither a while longer but thanks for the heads up.

And if it's not about these two people then who are we talking about please?

And if it's not about these two people then who are we talking about please?

OP seems to be referring to several men.

I've seen some people express criticism of Michael Foran as well as Boswell.

One of the things I find so hard about all this is that the level of anger displayed feels disproportionate to the crime, which is usually that MF or Boswell has said something the person disagrees with. It's possible, I admit, that I might be missing something.

Alessandra Asteriti has been on Jean Hatchet's side in this and has a particular dislike of both MF and Boswell. In one of her recent tweets she criticised Maya Forstater for choosing to retweet Boswell's AI-generated tweets rather than the insights of a legal expert (ie Asteriti). But Asteriti spends much of her time on Twitter attacking Maya and Anya Palmer - why would you retweet someone who is so hostile towards you? I find that endless "woe is me" stuff about how everyone else is a great big meany really wearing, frankly.

Jean Hatchet and her partner were recently manhandled out of a darts competition for protesting a man (transwoman) playing in the woman's division; we should all support these stand-up women.
BT insulted her , Alessandra Asertiti and Shahrar Ali it's on his x profile. I unfollowed him.
I've found these 'liberal GC men' quick to block women if you have the temerity to disagree with them. I support women over them every single time.

BT insulted her , Alessandra Asertiti and Shahrar Ali it's on his x profile. I unfollowed him.

I think he changed his bio after the row, and is stepping away from X for now.

GC men are allowed to disagree with women. From what I have seen I don't think this attack was one sided although I'm not fully educated on it. To me it all just seems ridiculous when we should be focussing on women's rights and children's protections rather than slinging mud at each other.

🎯
I'm sure that there will be men out there pretending to be GC for self-interested reasons (though I am not convinced that boswelltoday and Michael Foran are in that category) and I imagine that we will see more of this type of man as the tide turns on gender ideology. So don't argue with them, use them. Pander to their sad little egos, feed them narratives, boost their twitter accounts so that they spread the word to all the people that we cannot reach. Then, when the last fetishist is removed from a women's space and the last teenage girl thinking about having her breasts removed is finally persuaded to seek counselling, we can have a mass unfollowing of these men on SM and say goodbye and thanks for all the fish.

I don’t blindly support anyone, man or woman, I take each situation as it comes.

I do however hear one name come up every time there is talk of ‘infighting’ and wonder who’s got on the wrong side of her volatile temper this time.