Men in the movement.

[UrsulasHerbBag]

Hi everyone. I just want to give you all a reminder that men in our movement are not always what they seem. Just because they say they agree with us doesn’t mean they are in it for the same reasons we are. There a few that see how lucrative being on TERF/GC platforms can be. I think I am mainly saying that if you see one of these men attacking women online, even if you think that woman is awful don’t join in with him, just scroll passed. There has been a lot of it recently on various platforms and it has upset me to see how many women support them in their misogyny whilst calling themselves feminists. I am very proud of the women who fight hard to gain ground and get our voices heard and I am just a bit sick of men who jump in from nowhere, take our words and kick our women and be supported by us. It is a tale as old as time, men taking from women. As you were TERFs.

Excessive?

https://x.com/hatpinwoman/status/1954582845743063356?s=46&t=WHoOZ_3Kv5G6-FyQuvE0LQ

https://x.com/jeanhatchet/status/1954567759242637553?s=46&t=WHoOZ_3Kv5G6-FyQuvE0LQ

If women holding the line is “excessive” then it’s easy to see why safeguarding has been utterly trashed. But I guess in going after “ultras”, and not the MSM quoted self styled leaders, it’s OK to agree with men talking this way about and to other women. Women who happen to also be correct on the core issue. Reportedly, it started with an attack on a different woman from what can be seen on Jean’s substack. I don’t agree she’s made herself the victim. I know she’s not universally popular but I cannot accept women “on our side” defending these words

And why has this account come back from a flounce, specifically citing one woman as an apparent target? Is more than one person behind it?

https://x.com/lascapigliata8/status/1954893426253820259?s=12&t=NDiu7O5cqjRqqjfJ768TGQ

Why and how did an account come from apparently nowhere, to be feted in this way? Don’t people have the ability to think critically any more, to take a step back and go “hmmm some of this doesn’t make much sense”?

Alessandra has been proved right about the EQA. So too have others like Kate Coleman.

I tend to find that being right about stuff doesn't make people like you.

I stopped looking out for BoswellToday summaries after this one from the day Charlotte Myles was on the stand.

https://x.com/boswelltoday/status/1947309640460415162

I'm kicking myself that I didn't realise it was AI at the time. It included so many key details from the day but constructed a really baffling account that was off in so many ways from what I'd observed remotely.

I dont know very much about the criticism of Michael Foran but what I will say from observing the tribunal is that he seemed to keep himself busy in practical ways, aside from his commentary on the case. Notably, he went and unplugged the microphones at each break, after a few uncomfortable times when observers had overheard snippets of private conversations that took place as people were leaving the court. Together with Charlotte Elves, Michael deserves an honorary court clerk badge at least, for generally behaving in helpful smiley ways not just for their own team, but for witnesses and others that they helped and picked up for between court sessions. And I do think everyone deserves credit for doing the right thing when they might reasonably think noone is watching!

Damn, I wish I'd read the comments at the time!

Peter MacDonald @BlackIslePMD ·
Jul 21

I think you might be leaning on AI to heavily here. That summary would sound very plausible to someone who hadn't read the TT live feed, but in reality, it's not a reasonable representation at all.

Boswelltoday @boswelltoday
Jul 21

I was listening in and using TT. Same as always. What part don’t you think passes?

Peter MacDonald
@BlackIslePMD

The entire piece. You've lumped her in at exactly the same level as the rest of them, when clearly she was significantly more professional. Far from flawless, but absolutely not the character you have painted her as. Others feeding this back also.

TransSceptic
@biologytrumps

I was observing, and I think you have misrepresented her actions and probably her motivations. She is the first witness for NHS Fife to answer openly and straightforwardly, and despite her genderwoo assumptions, she managed the suspension review impartially and reasonably.
6:37 PM · Jul 21, 2025

Damn, I wish I'd read the comments at the time!

Good point. It's interesting that Boswell denied using AI at this point, and has only now admitted that's what he was doing.

I think there is a lesson here. Looking back at Boswell's tweets, at the time they seemed impressive and authoritative summaries of what was being said. But reading them again, they do have that indefinable air of text that was generated by AI - though I couldn't put my finger on what the difference is.

It's all a bit weird - the account seemed to come from nowhere, and gained a big following from those of us who were struggling to follow the TT tweets. To what end, though? The anonymity of the account makes it hard to believe he/they was/were doing it for either the money or the glory.

“But reading them again, they do have that indefinable air of text that was generated by AI - though I couldn't put my finger on what the difference is.”

I think this is just being human (that you get that feeling). I’ve read job applications that have clearly been done this way. They stick out - and not in a good way.

“It's all a bit weird - the account seemed to come from nowhere, and gained a big following from those of us who were struggling to follow the TT tweets. To what end, though?”

Get rid of TT/shove them aside? Establish self in the women’s movement? Gain notoriety?! Test AI and go “gotcha witches”? Who knows.

I had family here for the first week of the second section of the Sandie Peggie tribunal so Boswell's summaries helped me keep on top of it but at one point he seemed to be misrepresenting something that I'd seen earlier so I stopped.

I can't even remember what it was and I can't be arsed to go back and find out.

I remember the darts thing, too, now that you mention it, and was wondering about what's the problem and why is he attacking them.

I had a related idea to the OP but didn't see her thread at first; I added some additional comments on this topic to the new SP thread (#50, p1 if you are on the 100 posts = 1 page counter).

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5387893-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-50 and some others have replied, too, so there might be some crossposting between threads.

Blocked that Boswell guy months ago, felt there was something off about him. In hindsight maybe it was the AI writing, maybe his attitude, maybe both.

Had Glinner blocked for ages too, he's just as bad when a woman has the temerity to disagree with him.

I thought Boswell had gone on a twitter break yesterday but he came back for more today, apparently. I'm surprised he started naming dissenters in his bio (captured here before he deleted it: https://x.com/MalleyNotagain/status/1954817927225421999)

He seems to have turned on, and blocked, ShahrarAli who had previously retweeted and complimented Boswell, and who fairly mildly noted his disappointment in the undisclosed use of AI, and explained why it was important to disclose AI authorship. It was hardly the pile-on that Boswell claimed in his bio!

"To what end, though? The anonymity of the account makes it hard to believe he/they was/were doing it for either the money or the glory."
@RoyalCorgi

I'm speculating it could be a real-life test of a legal AI his team developed, and the readers are the use case. The prominence and the thankful replies and the fact we're all discussing his (AI) contribution here could show that the model works. Legal cases have so many documents, and I assume there are already AI models and programs for it, but maybe this is supposed to be a newer version or more accurate or whichever.

I try and remember that the movers and shakers, the people whose names are known, are all likely traumatised by a lot they have experienced. They have sacrificed a lot, been relentlessly targeted, and are perhaps quick to feel targeted as a result.

I tend not to hold flash in the pan nastiness against people.

Sustained unfair criticism I take exception to, though.

On here I give much more weight to the arguments of those who play nicely. I write off the opinions of those who point score.

I try to keep out of it all tbh. There are people who I trust completely like Helen Joyce. I don't get involved in the infighting. It's pointless. It takes all sorts. Eyes on the prize.

@thatsthewayitis

Alessandra Asteriti also has the (legal) receipts, reposted today:
https://nitter.poast.org/alessandraaster

I wrote in Women's Rights-thread (#10) recently about Alessandra Asteriti and some other disagreements which I observed, so I don't want to repeat it but in the background seems to be a general discussion about who did the work and who got credit for it.

@myplace

Perhaps the reason why some women are quick to react is that their involvement in the GC movement came from personal experiences or from experiences of family and friends and they put in a lot of personal time for these discussions. It boils down to that men cannot experience patriarchy, though of course there are also men who support GC because they share the values.

@myplace Meant to say I agree with you (sorry, it's late), but yeah, people can be sensitive because they know all the time they invested.

I agree @ConstructionTime

They are familiar targets, they look for missiles. They have earned their battle scars with blood sweat and tears.

Let’s be honest, polite and carefully moderated people like me would achieve nothing- I’d be useless to the cause! You need people who can stand disapproval, and in fact be ‘a bloody difficult woman!’

Fierce is what we need. There are downsides. But it’s what we need!

Passionate people.

https://x.com/shahrarali/status/1955189109766455333?s=46&t=WHoOZ_3Kv5G6-FyQuvE0LQ

.

I saw that too. The unquestioning messages of support for him from women who actually said they didn't even know what was going on were just ridiculous. For a women's rights movement, we do seem to centre an awful lot of piggybacking men who are doing practically nothing over and far, far above the women who get things done.

That's an interesting idea and makes perfect sense.

Yep. Unfortunately, BoswellToday had several opportunities back in February to disclose the use of AI, and he deflected each time, on main Twitter and via DM.

I'm glad the local press are reporting directly from the SP tribunal now and hope that, together with Tribunal Tweets, they get the credit and the reach that they deserve.

It's more than the issue of honesty. The quality of human reporting is so much more accurate.

It does make me wonder about the naming of the account, what with the old Boswell thread on here a few years back...whether it is one of the monitors trying to edge into the movement in order to gain trust.

I have a vague memory of this…